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Need A Utility Sink Faucet With 3.125 Inch Center

SteamHeat
SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
Hello Everyone,

Please see attached jpeg image.

I am looking for a utility sink faucet to replace this one which leaks whenever turned on, either hot or cold, from the spout joint and drips for hours after closing. It is well beyond its service life and is a very odd setup.

The problem I am having is that the centers measure 3.125 inches (3-1/8) and I cannot find anything with that size.

Anyone have any ideas besides complete re-work ?

TIA

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 19,425
    My inclination -- since I go restoration! -- would be to take the spout off (is that a union? If not, take the whole thing off the wall and undo the spout) and find out why it is leaking. Odds are that it is a packing problem. Might be able to simply repack it. Do the valves shut off tightly? They look like quarter turn, which is relatively recent -- there might be parts for them available, as well.

    Otherwise...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    GGross
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    Hi Jamie,

    Thanks for the reply.

    Before the plague was visited upon us, I had a pro (MP) come for a look-see. He could not figure out how to remove the spout. Neither could I.

    The valves would need to have the washers replaced and be re-packed, but they are NOT 1/4 turn and they are so close to the wall, they grind the back part of their handles against the metal splash plate that the former homeowner bolted to the wall whenever they are opened or closed.

    I was hoping to find a faucet that fit that had smaller handles so that they would clear the splash plate.

    There is (of course) no cut-off for this faucet other than turning off the water meter for the entire house. So removing the faucet without having another faucet to replace it, that will definitely fit, is not advisable. :) LOL !

    The folks that take pleasure in making a Rube Goldberg installation never seem to be the ones who have to repair it later on. :) LOL !
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 19,425
    Those old things can be a little difficult...

    You might look at Van Dyke's. This link is for their bath tub faucets at 3 3/8 inch spacing: https://www.vandykes.com/bathtub-faucets-wall-mount-338-inch/c/9242/
    but I haven't seen any at 3 1/8.

    The Big Box has this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Glacier-Bay-2-Handle-Laundry-Faucet-in-Rough-Brass-4211N-0001/206576360
    but it's 3 1/2.

    Lowe's has a similar one; they don't bother to give the spacing.

    Even Walmart has one -- but again, 3 1/2 inch spacing.

    I'm searching for "utility sink faucet" by the way...

    I'll look some more sometime.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    Thank you, Jamie.

    I did not know about Van Dyke's. They might have some other old parts for my old home. :) LOL !

    I appreciate you helping me search for this.

    Many thanks.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,258
    I would think replacing or cleaning up the valve seats (not sure if you can still buy the tools for this?) And some new Neoprene washers and it would work like new for a long time.



    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,362
    The cheap easy way out is to rip it out and put two separate boiler drain valves on. If your using this for a washing machine or where it isn't likely that you need a mixing faucet then who cares?
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    Hi Chrisj,

    Thanks for the reply.

    The problem of repairing this is that with no cutoff specific to this fixture, if I turn off the water meter to the house and begin to repair this only to find it un-repairable, if I then reassemble and it is leaking in the off positions with no replacement ready, I am so very screwed.

    So even if I want to try to rebuild this faucet, I still need to have a replacement that fits ready in case everything goes wrong, which is all too often what happens with ancient plumbing hardware.

    What may not be very visible in my jpeg, is that the hot packing nut has a blob of what looks like epoxy on it. That does not portend a good outcome for repairs.

    I really need to see if I can find a direct fit replacement.
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    Hi EBEBRATT-Ed,

    Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, it is used for hand washing and other temperature sensitive purposes, so mixing is needed.

    However, if you could point me to a link for boiler drain valves which are top-fed, it would give me a way to save myself if they do start leaking while closed and if I cannot find a faucet that fits.

    I suppose I could maybe even rig a temporary mixing setup with garden hose fittings and tubing.

    TIA
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,258
    Honestly, if it was mine, I would do what I already did to my own house.

    Sawzall.
    Years ago I replaced most of the galvanized with copper. I just replaced some of the really old copper with pex A and replaced the galvanized water service line which was lots of fun.

    In the end, it was worth it.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,908
    I just measured a couple of retired surface mount shower valves, one is 3 1/2 the other is 3 3/8.

    You could remove the faucet via the unions, then remove the upper half of the union. That part is brass and may unscrew fairly easy. Or hold the nuts up and grind/saw the brass across the threads almost to the iron pipe threads.

    With them off you could them install 1/2" galv or brass 90's and regular boiler/hose bib drains. Old school globe valves give better regulation than 1/4 turn ball valves.
    Then the hokey hose wye on the outlets to give you a single port faucet. The only caution is to not put any valve on the single port, this gives you a potential cross connection of hot and cold.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 19,425
    On the whole, not an unusual problem with old (like really old) plumbing. I don't like the sound of the blob of epoxy at all...

    And repairing the seats and washers is a very iffish proposition. One of the unappreciated problems (been there, done that, by the way) is that older faucets like that have much larger diameter seat (and washers) than even ones from the '50s, and even if you can find a faucet reamer the correct size for them, it's remarkably difficult to get the seat really square. It doesn't matter so much on modern (!) smaller ones, but at those sizes... drip drip drip.

    I honestly think my own approach would be to find one -- probably Van Dykes -- which had much the same look and feel, and then redo the plumbing above it to fit. And a suggestion on that: if you do, install independent local shutoffs in the lines above. Ball valves to suit are not expensive, and can save an unbelievable amount of grief later one.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,258
    On the whole, not an unusual problem with old (like really old) plumbing. I don't like the sound of the blob of epoxy at all... And repairing the seats and washers is a very iffish proposition. One of the unappreciated problems (been there, done that, by the way) is that older faucets like that have much larger diameter seat (and washers) than even ones from the '50s, and even if you can find a faucet reamer the correct size for them, it's remarkably difficult to get the seat really square. It doesn't matter so much on modern (!) smaller ones, but at those sizes... drip drip drip. I honestly think my own approach would be to find one -- probably Van Dykes -- which had much the same look and feel, and then redo the plumbing above it to fit. And a suggestion on that: if you do, install independent local shutoffs in the lines above. Ball valves to suit are not expensive, and can save an unbelievable amount of grief later one.

    Oddly enough the stops I just installed are not ball type.  I've kind of given up on cheap ball valves.   Expensive ones yes I'll use but the cheaper ones, no thanks.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    Thanks for the replies everyone.

    Unfortunately, I have some experience with sawzall. A pro used one to cut some water pipe to make a mod for me and the vibration caused all sorts of leaks down the line necessitating a lot of replaced sections that were not envisioned in the planning of the mod.

    Another problem is that the feeding pipes are mounted nearly flush to the foundation wall and getting an elbow threaded on would require chopping a matching hole into the concrete blocks. Not something I would really want to do.

    I am trying to avoid re-doing the plumbing above, though if there is no other way, if I cannot find a fixture that fits, then I guess that I will have to have my pro re-do the piping and I'll have him replace the slop sink at the same time. That would have to be post-plague though.

    I will keep looking. Somewhere out there maybe someone has a fixture that fits. I think that the faucet was a mass produced item. There must have been a 3.125 line from some manufacturer at one time. I just have to find one that is in good or new shape.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,998
    Wouldn't hurt to start replacing some of that galvanized with copper and add some shutoffs or buy a faucet with service stops.

    Here is a gerber without stops:
    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Gerber-G0049530-Two-Handle-Clamp-On-Laundry-Faucet-w-IPS-Sweat-Connections-Threaded-Hose-Spout-Rough-Brass-49-530

    Kohler and speakman probably make one too
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,998
    those pipes will almost certainly move out half an inch or so and over a quarter inch to fit a faucet with slightly different spacing if you undo some of the hangers. you will have to replace the half of the unions on the risers to match the unions on the old faucet.

    i really don't think someone who knows what they are doing would have any problem rebuilding that old faucet.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,998
    I think the spout comes off by unscrewing that nut on the top then there is a washer arrangement that seals it and holds it to the faucet body.
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    mattmia2,

    Thank you for all the information and advice.
    This gives me many more options.

    Thanks.
    mattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,998
    @SteamHeat I thought of another option as well which I think was already mentioned, you could put some ells or turn the existing ells to point out and use an ordinary wall faucet with adjustable centers. I know that wall faucets are commonly available with integral service stops, so that might be an advantage there.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,386
    edited October 2020
    You could also orient a single lever washing machine valve and use a couple of garden hose valves on the discharge.

    What I would do if all else fails is to install a couple of lever handle boiler drain ball valves to replace your current valve.
    @SteamHeat , I think that may be your best bet at this point.
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    mattmia2,

    Thanks.

    The piping is so close to the concrete foundation wall, I do not think that I have enough clearance to thread on elbows. But if I did have clearance by unbolting the pipes and flexing them temporarily, I have not seen adjustable 4 inch center wall mount faucets. I have only seen 8 inch center adjustable wall mount faucets. Can you give me a link for a 4 inch unit?

    TIA
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    Intplm,

    So are you meaning, put the male half of a union on a valve like this...
    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Legend-Valve-107-143NL-T-521-1-2-MNPT-Brass-Boiler-Drain-Valve-Lead-Free

    Use one for cold, one for hot, and make a garden hose "Y" to mix the cold with the hot?
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,386
    @SteamHeat . Yes something like that or like the one pictured here.
    Also use a couple of brass union type elbows pictured here as well.
    These elbows will help with the close installation concerns you have talked about earlier.


    You might need to add a coupling or a nipple to make it work. But it is quite doable.
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    Intplm,

    Thank you. Excellent!

    I have learned a lot from everyone who responded.
    Many thanks.
    Intplm.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,998
    edited October 2020
    Chicago faucet makes ones that will adjust down to 3" in both an 8" and ~3" body
    https://www.chicagofaucets.com/products/commercial-faucets/manual/631-E35RABCP

    I know they used to make them with service stops in the adjustable arms, i can't work their online catalog well enough to figure out if they still do.

    The Gerber will be by far the least expensive. in the neighborhood I grew up in there are lots of 60+ year old Gerber laundry and tub faucets still in service.
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 3,635
    edited October 2020
    Edward Young
    Retired HVAC Contractor from So. Jersey.
    Services first oil burner at age 16
    P/T trainer for EH-CC.org

    mattmia2Intplm.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,998
    It is very similar but i think a different manufacturer. gerber's handles are less detailed and It looks like the current one is only designed to be supported by the piping, it has those tabs to attach the chain and stoppers to. the gerber has a bracket cast in to clamp over the top edge of a concrete laundry tub or a little adapter block that attaches to the holes in a plastic laundry tub.
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    EdTheHeaterMan

    Thank you.
    The Gerber 49530 looks like the path of least resistance, so I am going to give it a try. I appreciate you finding this for me.

    If the faucet lasts longer than 2 years, I will consider it a good investment. :) LOL !!
  • Mercadr
    Mercadr Member Posts: 2
    edited August 12
    Hello,
    came across your post.  I’m dealing with h the same issue.  Did u come up with a solution or find a similar faucet?  In my setup I also don’t know what kind of connections I’m dealing with.  Some look threaded, others maybe sweated on. I’ve added 3 pics for reference.

    thanks for any help or advice!
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,998
    The faucet has unions built in to the top of it, the other half of the unions is female pipe thread. There are sweat to pipe thread adapters screwed in to the unions and soldered to the copper pipe.

    Is there anything wrong with that faucet that wouldn't be fixed with new washers and packing? You can probably get new seats or new stems from a web site that specializes in faucet parts if you need them too. That old faucet will be heavier brass than what you'd replace it with but that style faucet is still available from Gerber and others.
    Mercadr
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    Wow, I did not think that anyone still had ancient hardware like me.

    The project was put on hold because we had family that was ill, and then with the plagues we just never got back to it.

    We just avoid using the sink as much as possible out of fear we will not be able to turn it off since there are no independent cutoffs. If that were to happen, I would try to get the boiler drains that were discussed earlier in the thread.

    But ideally it will hold until they have an updated vaccine and I can have my pro come in with his workers and just replace piping, sink, and the faucets all in one big dirty job.

    But parts for the faucet I have are unavailable. I tried years ago just to get the valves replaced and the pro just looked at me and said, if you can find them, I will put them in. Needless to say I could not.

    Packing is do-able, but getting the washers off and replaced, well I think those screws are not going to come out. I use 50% power steering 50% acetone for those rusted in place nightmares, but I do not think even soaking the valve would work on something immersed for about 80 years.

    You can try that brew shaken up good and painted onto the threads in your setup. But keep your pro's phone number handy just in case things turn uglier.

    Thanks and good luck.
    Mercadr
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    By the way, I did intially get the faucet last mentioned in the thread, but it did not fit. Fortunately I was able to return for a refund.
  • Mercadr
    Mercadr Member Posts: 2
    Ok thanks for the info.. removing it looks like more than I can handle.  I didn’t know seats were in there along with the packing. I’ll try and change it out.  Also looking for a handle like the original in the left.  The ones I bought looked the same but the splines didn’t match up an were too small. I was thinking of filing the inside of the handle to make it fit?  The one on the Right is one of those universal fit handles. They never keep tight and always loosen up they are a piece of junk and I always find the faucet leaking. Thanks again for the advice.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,998
    If you take a good picture of the splines and show it to a web site that has a good inventory of older stems they should be able to match up the handle and the stem. The splines are unique to each manufacturer and will tell you who manufactured the faucet.

    Unless the seats are damaged you shouldn't have to touch them, just replace the washer.
    Mercadr
  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 290
    i would contact these guys. we had a supply house in the boston area that used to carry all kinds of old parts and this was the company that would supply them the old obsolete plumbing parts.
    https://www.tapcogenuinepartscenter.com/
    Mercadr
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 16,875
    The seats tend to get brittle over time and grinding them does not always work.They chip out.   If you try a rebuild replace the seats. Assuming the are removable 
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Mercadr
  • SteamHeat
    SteamHeat Member Posts: 156
    Wow, these are great resources here.
    I will try to contact Tapco.

    Thank you.
    MikeAmann