Are there any 1950s radiant floor heat leak repair methods that work on copper pipe?

DanJackson

We purchased a 1952 mid century modern with original copper pipe radiant floor and ceiling heat. All of the equipment is in place including the natural gas boiler in fact it looks to be in great shape. But I was told at the time I purchased the home that there have been some leaks in the floor. A forced air HVAC system now does the heating and cooling but I would like to restore The radiant heat system at least in the floor. I’ve heard some talk of lining the old copper pipes with a soft pecks material that is forced through the pipes with air Pressure and then hardened. In fact I’ve seen It done on larger sewer pipes. I am a general contractor but this is my own home and it is an area that I have little experience with. Anyone out there have some good information on these methods or other methods for sealing 70+ yrs old copper in bedded In Concrete radiant floor. As I have said the pumps and boiler are in excellent condition given their age I just need a way to seal up those pesky leaks. Does anyone have experience with similar situation? Thanks in advance for your response. By the way I live in Oregon.
Dan.

STEVEusaPA

Sorry, it's done.
You could fire it up, get a thermal imaging camera to locate the leaks, mark out the tubing, carefully break the concrete around it and patch the piping.
But if you have a few leaks, you're probably not too far away from having a lot of them.
If the slab was insulated, you may be able to do a small build up over the concrete with 3/4" warmboard or equivalent and flooring over that to get the radiant back.

jumper

There are companies who may try to "reline" pipe. Doubt that they'll guarantee job.

Solid_Fuel_Man

I would also be inclined to put a sandwich type system over the existing slab. That way you can add some foam and have at least a little R-value below the radiant. 

I want some pictures! I love mid-century modern! I've got a car that would go nicely with a mid-century home. 

DanJackson

DanJackson

Thanks for the feedback everyone, in truth that’s pretty much what I figured. It’s a wonderful home but not in what I consider to be the best location if it were going to be our forever home I would jackhammer out the secondary slab and plumbing and pour in a new radiant floor. Too much work though! maybe the next one . Love the car she’s a beaut!
Dan . 👍✌️

Solid_Fuel_Man

Thank you!

Love the floor to ceiling glass and thin mullions. The slim shelving and heavy lined fireplace! Steeper roof than I imagined, but its hipped to look lower. Most of those homes were built very well with copious amounts of copper! Yours looks to be no exception. 

Great home, too bad time, concrete, and copper are not friends. 

DanJackson

Most of these pictures were taken when we first moved in we made quite a few improvements
We remove that absolutely useless cabinet that hung over the counter with the range that opened up the kitchen to the family room also pulled out some strange things someone had installed in the opening between the family room and the dining room also opening that up back to original much more spacious. We have already ordered new luxury Plank vinyl for the family room kitchen dining room etc. leaving the living room carpeted along with the bedrooms and hallway I think I’ll sneak some micro duct down in the walls in each of the rooms to get better heat distribution. The heat now comes from registers in the ceiling which works fine for air-conditioning but not when it comes to heating. If I can gather up the money I think I will go with a geothermal heat pump might even add a pellet stove in the living room between the two return registers it’s nice to have a fire also nice to have one you can control easily on the thermostat. We really fell in love with the design of this house as I said I have some plans that go with it I’m going to keep them in as soon as we find 50 to 100 acres with a year-round river or creek we will build a modern version of the same home accept high-efficiency. facing the right direction all of that.Might get rid of some of the built-in storage to, just doesn’t make any sense in this day and age, pick up some square footage.
The roofs are combination of 4/12 and 5/12 hip roof with one little gable on the west side of the house which provides a good place to mount a yard light to light the entire backyard. Although we are hooked up to city water and sewer we also have a hand dug in lined well for arrogating Man they just don’t make them like they used to! I’m in the process of changing out what’s left of the single pane aluminum frame glass going with mostly thermal pane units glazed right into the wood frames, no metal frame at all just beautiful picture windows! What’s left of these windows are old-style casement. Man I could go on and on but most of these ideas I think are in reserve for the forever home that we will build based on this model! As it sits right now it’s 3015 ft.² more than enough for grandma and me and you had the grandkids over whenever with plenty of room for them to stay. I just purchased A quarter acre panhandle lot that borders my property bringing my total lot size to 1 acre . Room for a duplex for income property and close enough I can keep an eye on it. Well I have rambled on long enough. It’s 2 o’clock in the morning here and can’t sleep so I think I will head into my electronics room my second passion restoring and repairing vintage Stereo electronics and Custom Turntables.
Have a great day solid fuel man ✌🏻

DanJackson

Have a great day solid fuel man we’ve made big changes since we bought it and have some energy efficiency changes still to make. As I said I’m keeping the plans that came with the house I will build a super high efficiency based on this floor plan on 75 to 100 acres with a year-round creek or river and possibly pull some Hydro electric. I love to dream. And that’s definitely mine.😉✌🏻

hot_rod

70 years is an excellent service life for a system like that. My experience is the tube fails where it touches the ground, or steel rebar. In think that is what doomed the Levitt town radiant, the tube in contact with agressive sub grade material. If steel or copper tube in completely encased in dry concrete it should last and last. Assuming the fluid inside the tube is not killing it

Keeping in mind some of the high tech, uber engineered radiant tubes of recent years failed within the first few years of service:)

The dog keeping the riffraff off your lawn?

epmiller

DanJackson said:

Well I have rambled on long enough. It’s 2 o’clock in the morning here and can’t sleep so I think I will head into my electronics room my second passion restoring and repairing vintage Stereo electronics and Custom Turntables.
Have a great day solid fuel man ✌🏻

If you are into old stereo equipment, would you need a Revox HA-250? Class A amplifier, I think it still works. 240 volt European power cord but the internal transformer is all ready to rewire for 120v.

GEO80

Cu no cement-lime?

A motel chain owner in 1980, at third or fourth GeoThermal install said to his son-in-law for a beautiful stone home x 4000 sq ft :
"Back-up that tarnatious non-gas heat-pump"
with copper in the cement slab, ... everywhere.

GEO80

cant wait to change-out the boiler circulators

retiredguy

@GEO80, I was told by my local B&G distributor many years ago that that model of pumps were designed to run for 100 years. The main problem with those pumps was and still is "too much and the wrong kind of oil".

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

I spent a lot of time in Oregon when I was younger. Corvallis for school, Silverton working on a grass seed farm and Ashland/Medford on a pear orchard when I wanted to be a farmer. I'd be up living up there right now hunting mushrooms if it wasn't for my kids and grandkids.
I'm guessing those B & G circulators are model "PR", high head type for the small tubing that was used in the slab; probably 3/8" copper. Do you have any photos of the manifolds; probably in the closets?