Converting 1940s Burnham oil to peerless gas

scott2la

First post here, I have been reading posts over the last few months and always appreciate the helpful advise and comments. I’ve installed my share of boilers over the years but this is probably the oldest replacement I’ve had to do and the most in terms of repiping header and replacing rotted wet returns under concrete. Boiler still working, they sure don’t make stuff like they used to or with as much asbestos. Lol. I’ll be starting this week after the asbestos is remediated and boiler removed. I’d love to hear some advise on repiping the header as the current header Design I’ve never seen before, seems to be breaking some fundamental rules of steam header design. I’ve seen drop sub headers used before feeding existing headers but I’ve never gone that route, always repiped one drop header as outlined by manufacturer. I will be installing a peerless 63 -05 series with dual Supply. Current system feeds 3 supply’s. Just got my ridgid 300 back with new 141 and 811 heads, best purchase I’ve ever made.

Steamhead

That header was OK on older boilers that had big steam chests. Won't work with Peerless. But if the pipe sizes are correct, you might be able to keep the two tees connecting the mains, and just bring the new header into where the front boiler riser is now. Remove the rear riser tee and pipe your equalizer off that.

scott2la

Thank you very much steamhead, that was my initial thought. I assume you are referring to the pipe with the towel as the rear riser, it’s currently leaking so will need replaced anyways as that is acting as the equalizer and I’ll call it dry return for that feed as that feeds about 30 feet away wyes off and is connected with another feed. The 2 main risers are 3” which is what peerless calls for, flange fitting on one, they go up and then opposite directions to each side of home, are they not technically bull heading each other? I will also need swing joints will I not? And are you saying I won’t need a drop header of any kind? Plenty of floor to supply height to meet the A measurement 28” factor. This is my first peerless, mostly been installing Utica and pennco But finding any large steam boiler during this time has been tough as I need a knockdown boiler to get it into basement. Appreciate your knowledge and advise.

scott2la

More photos

Steamhead

No, the rear riser I mentioned is coming up from the boiler to after the two system take-offs. If there is a third steam main, you would connect it after the first two, then 90 down and connect your equalizer.

scott2la

New header , into front riser got it. The second existing riser I have seen contractors plug the bottom hole on risers they are not using , will that not cause water getting trapped and noise, so I’ve read?
I plan on repiping as much as needed, around here in PA it seems no one wants to touch any steam boilers. Although it can be sometimes a bit confusing at first and hard work i enjoy the challenge. Thanks again @steamhead

STEVEusaPA

It might be the asbestos no one wants to touch.

Steamhead

scott2la said:

New header , into front riser got it. The second existing riser I have seen contractors plug the bottom hole on risers they are not using , will that not cause water getting trapped and noise, so I’ve read?

It can. The only time I'll just plug one is if it doesn't point down.

scott2la

Sub out remediation and removal, my dad had bags of asbestos he let us play in with our Tonka trucks at our machine shop as well as a jar of mercury and we’re fine. Lol Smh @STEVEusaPA

scott2la

Homeowner had several estimates, a lot with copper pipe on supply’s which is not good, I also saw they wanted to run the returns horizontal 20 ft from drip legs well above water level to avoid having to dig up Concrete for new wet returns as there is a walkway pipes will be run across. Maybe I am wrong in my understanding but I thought drip legs should only be run below water level once they drop vertical.

mattmia2

That is an amazing museum. I can't help with the piping but i do have one question. i see a mercury pressure control but I don't see an oil burner or any gas controls anywhere. Make sure you work out the piping before the remediation so that everything you need to touch gets removed.

scott2la

Good thing I’m replacing wet returns., I can’t imagine how the boiler was still producing any steam at all. Definitely the dirtiest boiler I’ve ever seen. 

scott2la

@steamhead thank you for your input. You seem to be very well educated with peerless. Removing the rear main tee may be as much work as just piping new supply’s to all 3 mains then equalizer. My mains are 2 1/2” front 3” rear, and 2 1/2” on the last. The pipe with the towel is a third main that is tied into equalizer on old boiler, this main also feeds into rear main supply pipe (2nd) and  ties in with a 45 pitched down about an inch about 30 feet away in basement. What was the theory behind connecting 2 mains together off boiler only to join them so far away? Both mains are the same size even after they tie together.

How critical is boiler height water level comparing to old system as the new boiler will be a lot lower. A drop header will bring me even lower? 

I plan on running dual 3” risers into  new 4” header into existing 3 mains then 90’down to equalizer. 

Thank you for the knowledge, now time to jackhammer the floor up for new wet returns across hallway. 

Steamhead

Any chance that third main was added later?

As long as the water line is above the point at which the drip lines tie together, you'll be fine.

scott2la

@steamhead it doesn’t look like it was, seems to be the original pipes and both match, asbestos wrap and all...all the drip lines tie together near the floor into one pipe, then under concrete, I got lucky as there is a union right before the pipe enters the floor, I just have to run new wet return to boiler, under concrete where a walkway is. I’m installing new wet returns right after they all tie together as those pipes are about 10” off floor before they go into concrete 20 ft away and not in need of replacement. Thanks for all the replies as having confirmation on my decisions is great help. I want to make sure the system is installed up to the highest standards, callbacks on steam boilers usually aren’t good. 

AMservices

@scott2la

Nice to hear your doing your research. 
Just want to remind you to check your air venting and inspect the radiator valves for evidence of leaking. 
Repacking radiator valves and making sure you have good working adjustable vents on your radiators goes a long way with balancing and controlling the steam. 
Its easy to forget about what's going on up stairs when your focusing on the difficult job you have down stairs.

scott2la

Thank you @AMservices, I always add  the costs of replacing all the main vents as well as replacing adjustable vents on each radiator especially on systems that have not been maintained. I didn’t notice any leaking on any valves that needed repacked but I will certainly check them once system is up and running. 

I got pretty experienced adjusting vents to colder rooms and balancing systems but it still a lot of work to get even heat everywhere especially when there are so many radiators. 

Anyone else crack there head on every job, around here there always seems to be a low hanging cast iron waste pipe right where you have to walk right at forehead level.

mattmia2

https://www.coopersafety.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/75586090774c24ce449401fa053d85dd/5/5/558f5e40-f8c5-40b9-8038-5fb459f76442.jpg

luketheplumber

scott2la said:

Anyone else crack there head on every job, around here there always seems to be a low hanging cast iron waste pipe right where you have to walk right at forehead level.

yes, I am 6,3 and it happens in just about every other basement.