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New enquiring mind.

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Synway
Synway Member Posts: 48
Hello all, I’m about to purchase an IBC DC15-96. I have a 600 square foot 1949 home with a 65” poured foundation unfinished basement.
So I’m wanting to put a 8x10x5 heat mass covering an old oil furnace pad in the basement. For the old hardwood floor, I ran 1/2” pex under The 3 of 4 quadrants of the main floor about 100 foot each. The two rooms are less than 100’ and the living room is about 120’
So the plumber is placing a thermostat in each of the bedrooms (2) , one in the living room and one in the basement.
4 cerc pumps ( the one on board and 3 others out) 5 loop manifold and 4 pumps. The living room/ common area thermostat is going to manage 2 loops.
Sorry for being a little scrambled with the lack of information but because of health issues I’m loosing my grey matter.
Hopefully I will hear from some patient people For some ideas, reassurance or guidance.
I had the loop lengths but misplaced that info and all he cavities are filled with insulation and I can’t find those notes lol
Thanks for your consideration.
Mike

Comments

  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,578
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    Was a heatloss calculation done, (job one)?
    Will your radiation output keep us with the heat loss, (job two)?
    Is your boiler piping following the manufacturers instructions? Many people prefer the use of zone valves, instead of circulation pumps for simplicity.
    A buffer tank may be needed as your zones are so small.—NBC
    SynwayCanucker
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,573
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    I am not sure what the question is.
    The boiler is certainly oversized for the heat load. Installing a circ for each zone is overkill. Using a small block of concrete as a heat sink will not do much in the way of thermal comfort.
    Is the underfloor tubing installed with plates? Has anyone done a heat loss calc?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    SynwayCanucker
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
    edited May 2020
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    @nicholas bonham-carter No heat loss was done. New windows doors and 2 inches of ridged foam under new siding.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    Enquiring mind? Is this for a tabloid newspaper?

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    EdTheHeaterManKeenGreen
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
    edited May 2020
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    @STEVEusaPA I’m in final stage heart failure, that comes with a poop load of things I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy, I was diagnosed in 99.
    Today in sudbury Ontario Canada, it’s damp and cold and this body’s antifreeze doesn’t flow so well. Final stage usually last 5 years. It effects a persons mind and reasonings near the end. I don’t want to be cold next season the plumber’ quote is the best I can do with my $6.5 gs.
    I know I don’t have those needed numbers/tests. I did that test self taught through study for the insulation install before but today this brain of mine is changing. So sorry for not talking the lingo, I love science, thermodynamics and all the other disaplins. I totally respect the professionals.
    I’m using my disability death benefits for this. So hopefully someone can give me a snippet of something.
    Basically asking if anyone is willing to interact with me before the contractor starts.
    I will be asking him about the heat loss/radiation output. This is the smallest unit and it modulates.
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,441
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    I do think that 4 circulators is way over kill for a 600 sq ft home. 1 zone would suffice.
    Also I would opt for the HC 13-50... Much better sized.
    STEVEusaPASuperTech
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,863
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    This unfortunately is one of those time when you should have reached out here before you started the physical work.
    Synway
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,335
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    Hi @Synway , I'm wondering if it isn't too late to simplify things and save you some of the cost and complexity. For instance, maybe only two thermostats are needed... one for the basement and one for the main living floor... if that With the insulation you added, separate controls and zones might not do much noticeable. If the boiler isn't purchased yet, something like @kcopp suggested will probably fit the need better and probably save money. Simplifying the distribution/zoning will also speed the job and need fewer parts. Once folks here have a clearer picture of what is to be put in, they can certainly help make sure the piping is designed right, and that is really important for good system function and comfort.

    Lastly, I know this is off topic, but you might be well served to look up a "functional medicine" doctor about your heart. I've seen some pretty amazing things they've done!

    Yours, Larry
    Synway
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
    edited May 2020
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    Gentlemen, thanks for your consideration respectfully is what this post is Meant to sound like . seemingly I am being foolish because the onus is on me . The contractor initially was talking about a potable water heating system To help my living space be more comfortable. He was saying as long as the loops were no more than a specific length that a circulation pump on a timer could keep the water fresh. Then he changed to recommending the combination boiler after I installed the pex.
    I think NOW he wasn’t confident With the initial recommendation.
    I feel that all businesses are forced to be$$ driven understandably, and my pocket is limited.
    Even though, I verbally agreed to the DC 15-96 and it’s ordered to cover my space heating And DHW.
    I’m thinking he chose the modulating unit to cover the lower range of btu. These heating plants are best ran high or mid range being able to fluctuate up or down in firing temp. Keeping my electric hot water tank and useing it for storage will reduce firing cycles.
    I apologize again for my use of words. Ya’ll know how important good O2 is
    ; )
    Currently I am heating the house with a forced air gas unit. I think he said 75 grand btu Too big as it cycles too much.
    My foundation is surrounded by wet marshy like clay. And the two newer houses sandwiching my yard, raised their properties. So our basement is near flowing/fluctuating ground water, the neighborhood drain way to lake Ramsey. No eve on the house, 1949 house built by miners.
    So I want to reduce the cold effect from my un insulated poured concreate foundation so take the area of concrete walls and floor and figure how much btu to keep it at temp.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,573
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    I would not put heat in a slab that is exposed to active ground water. It will steal the heat quickly. Panel radiators or old cast iron radiators would be a good fit.
    For the boiler, a tank combi unit will work well for a small heating load like yours. The high mass reduces short cycling.
    http://www.htproducts.com/pioneer.html
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    Synway
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
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    @Larry Weingarten I’m just realizing how to answer individuals with your post. True story lol
    The plumber is waiting for the ordered unit. He probably ordered the pumps too and he’ll want 25% restocking.
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
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    @HVACNUT yes I’m kicking myself every night. Lol aka, wake up in horror
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
    edited May 2020
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    @kcopp one zone. Oops I guess with the basement it’s 1200 square.
    I think the contractor chose the dc-15-96 is because of it being modulating and me heating dhw too
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
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    @Zman the basement is cold and it’s 600 sq on its own. So I should just put rads in the basement? Do you have a link?
    Thanks
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
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    @Zman thanks for the input. I’ll see if it’s too late for the swap.
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
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    @Zman I was planing on 2inch foam under slab but I’m feeling like the 10x8’ slab would not contribute enough btu in the basement. Panel rads it may be. I was just thinking keeping the heat sink more in the central . The chimney and furnace slabs are there so I’m thinking bedrock might be poking up down there.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,573
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    Hypothetically, your 600 sq/ft may have a heat loss of 20 btu/ft. That would be 12,000 btu's. It is pretty difficult to get more than 30 btu's per foot out of a slab. 8x10 would put out 3,200 btu's.
    If it is to be a finished space, a radiant ceiling would be awesome.
    These also work well.
    https://runtalnorthamerica.com/residential_radiators/baseboard_uf.html
    They need to be derated to run at low water temps.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    Synway
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,441
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    @Synway. I was unaware that IBC/ Intergas made a Combi at that size. Its is either the 20-125 or a 33-160.
  • PerryHolzman
    PerryHolzman Member Posts: 234
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    I'm not sure how much vertical height you have; but I was involved with a church project decades ago that had a "cool" basement (with steam heat) where we laid down rot resistant 1x2's on 12" centers for an air gap (and drainage in the case of moisture or water) then a layer of 1/2" plywood, followed by a set of 2x2's on 16" centers crossing the 1x2's with styrofoam insulation between them. Covered that with flooring baseboards and plywood, and installed a new tile floor above that (with a box in the corner which allowed access to the floor drain in the original concrete floor). The basement of that church became rather toasty after that.

    I think they lost about 3 3/4" vertical height in the basement - but totally made it much more usable in the winter.

    You might be able to do something similar - even if you don't use as much insulation. Then wall radiators would do wonders.

    Hope this helps,

    Perry
    Synway
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
    edited May 2020
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    @PerryHolzman sadly I’ve only got 75 inches. I appreciate your contribution
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
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    @kcopp yes the DC 15-96 is the smallest one
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
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    @Zman radiant ceiling?? So how efficient are these panels at directing heat downward? Is that a stupid question?
  • Canucker
    Canucker Member Posts: 722
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    Synway said:

    @Zman radiant ceiling?? So how efficient are these panels at directing heat downward? Is that a stupid question?

    As long as there is a proper amount of insulation, they'll be very good for directing the heat where you want it.
    I'm originally from the Sudbury area and I know how cold it gets up there. Due to you limited basement height, have you considered buying used cast iron radiators to supply heat to that zone? I see them for sale a lot, usually in the older parts of the city, and Garson for some reason. haha
    You can have it good, fast or cheap. Pick two
    Synway
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,573
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    Radiant ceilings work great. Radiant energy is like light. It knows nothing of gravity. The whole heat rises thing only applies to warmer fluids being less dense and more buoyant that colder fluids.
    I am having trouble understanding the 5' ceilings. Are the occupants shorter than the average person?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    Larry WeingartenCanucker
  • Canucker
    Canucker Member Posts: 722
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    @Zman I think it's a crawl space that they want to heat to make the floors above it more comfortable unless I misunderstood the earlier posts
    You can have it good, fast or cheap. Pick two
    Synway
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
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    @Canucker poured 75” high foundation. Unfinished basement
  • Synway
    Synway Member Posts: 48
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    @Canucker hey man, thanks for your input. Yes I’d love to find some cast iron radiators but finding healthy backs to move them may be the hard part