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Beckett burner on Utica boiler cycles off then back on...

Timco
Timco Member Posts: 3,040
Almost every call. Light on zone controller lights up, boiler fires very smooth, then drops out after 2-3 seconds, fan stops and all. All call lights stay on and no error lights on ignition control on burner. Then it fires right back up and stays on every time without fail. I’ve never owned an oil boiler so I’m a bit lost. It did this before and after I cleaned the soot off the burner and cleaned the nozzle. It actually lights and fires much smoother after cleaning the soot off the swirl plate and cleaning the gel off the nozzle. It’s a 3 year old Beckett on a Utica triple pass boiler. I did not open up the chamber and clean the inside. Thanks.
Just a guy running some pipes.

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,270
    Cedric did this at one point, but very erratically -- most calls, no problem. Some calls, fired up, shut down (Cedric had a prepurge so there was a time delay) then fired up perfectly. We never did really figure out what the problem was, though we suspect something marginal in the flame sensing.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Timco
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,510
    @Timco
    I would check and clean the cad cell eye. Disconnect the cad cell leads and connect them to an ohm meter. Start the burner when the flame comes on the resistance should be around 800 ohms or less (lower=better). If your up around 1500 ohms your in lockout territory. Check all wiring connections.

    If you can't find anything I would suspect the control
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,828
    What model Beckett? AFG or NX?

    If you cleaned soot off the burner, There's something wrong!!! There should NEVER be soot. It's 2020. Oil burns clean.

    Since you've never had an oil system before, are you aware that it needs an annual maintenance by a professional?

    If the system is three years old and hasn't been checked yet, get it checked. With combustion, smoke, and draft tests.
    STEVEusaPASuperTech
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,152
    If you had to clean a significant amount of soot from the flame retention head then you have a draft overfire problem. It would be wise to have the boiler professionally cleaned and serviced. A good service tech should be able to set the draft and tune the burner so it operates cleanly all year long with zero smoke or soot.
  • Timco
    Timco Member Posts: 3,040
    edited May 2020
    HVACNUT said:

    What model Beckett? AFG or NX?



    If you cleaned soot off the burner, There's something wrong!!! There should NEVER be soot. It's 2020. Oil burns clean.



    Since you've never had an oil system before, are you aware that it needs an annual maintenance by a professional?



    If the system is three years old and hasn't been checked yet, get it checked. With combustion, smoke, and draft tests.

    NX on model number and RWB on the front. If my oil provider did the last service, should I find a better pro? I’m in Warren RI.
    Just a guy running some pipes.
  • Timco
    Timco Member Posts: 3,040


    Just a guy running some pipes.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,270
    sounds like maybe, yeah. What, exactly, did the oil provider do on the last service you had? Do you know?
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,506
    edited May 2020
    That’s not an NX burner. It’s something electric-loose wire, control, component, etc.. You’re probably seeing soot due to the rapid short cycling.
    Your service provider may be fine. I wonder why you didn’t call them first and instead try to fix it on your own. They (should) have the proper diagnostic skills and tools.

    I spend a lot of time cleaning and perfectly tuning combustion on my customer's oil burners. I have no tolerance for a customer who starts monkeying with my work. I simply tell them “Only one person is going to work on this burner, you or me, not both”.
    I also tell them to never press the reset button, not once. It's never fixed any burner, and can make it dangerously worse.
    That’s their only warning. If it happens again, we part ways.
    steve
    SuperTechHVACNUT
  • Timco
    Timco Member Posts: 3,040

    sounds like maybe, yeah. What, exactly, did the oil provider do on the last service you had? Do you know?

    That was before we owned the home. Note says serviced about 2 years ago now. My plan was to learn oil burners and do this myself as I have a Bacharach analyzer but I’ve never done a smoke test nor adjusted an oil burner.
    Just a guy running some pipes.
  • Timco
    Timco Member Posts: 3,040
    edited May 2020

    That’s not an NX burner. It’s something electric-loose wire, control, component, etc.. You’re probably seeing soot due to the rapid short cycling.
    Your service provider may be fine. I wonder why you didn’t call them first and instead try to fix it on your own. They (should) have the proper diagnostic skills and tools.

    I spend a lot of time cleaning and perfectly tuning combustion on my customer's oil burners. I have no tolerance for a customer who starts monkeying with my work. I simply tell them “Only one person is going to work on this burner, you or me, not both”.
    I also tell them to never press the reset button, not once. It's never fixed any burner, and can make it dangerously worse.
    That’s their only warning. If it happens again, we part ways.

    This has never needed to be reset. I get what you’re saying about homeowners. I’ve been doing hydronics for 15 years now, just never a oil burner. I’d like to get up to speed but I’ll have to do some reading and learn from whoever we call. All I did was pull the burner and clean the soot off the components. It’s much quieter and smoother now. We have BB so it can and does short cycle. I’m not happy with the L7224 / L7248 aquastat either. No option for DHW vs CH calls and it has to be set based on boiler HL not water temp. With water temp set back it takes forever for the water heater to make up.
    Just a guy running some pipes.
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,152
    edited May 2020
    If you have the L7224 aquastat it should be able to tell the difference between DHW and space heating calls. It's not set up right. I believe its the DUU setting, it's in the installation instructions. If you really want to run lower water temperatures buy the outdoor reset module and the DHW module and enjoy the energy savings.
    If you have the combustion analyzer that's great, but you can't tune a burner for true zero smoke without a smoke tester. And setting the draft correctly is critical.
    TimcoHVACNUT
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,828
    Go to school.
  • Timco
    Timco Member Posts: 3,040
    SuperTech said:

    If you have the L7224 aquastat it should be able to tell the difference between DHW and space heating calls. It's not set up right. I believe its the DUU setting, it's in the installation instructions. If you really want to run lower water temperatures buy the outdoor reset module and the DHW module and enjoy the energy savings.

    If you have the combustion analyzer that's great, but you can't tune a burner for true zero smoke without a smoke tester. And setting the draft correctly is critical.

    PN for DHW module? I don’t have a DUU option in settings. Thanks!
    Just a guy running some pipes.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,506
    @Timco. Where are you located? Plenty of training to get you up to speed. A lot of it now online.
    Maybe you can find a local guy you can shadow for a week, see some proper cleanings, tune ups, and proper combustion set up-draft, smoke, etc.
    Actually if you know of such a person, have them come over for a full cleaning/service, set up and asks lots of questions.
    steve
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,152
    edited May 2020
    > @Timco said:
    > (Quote)
    > PN for DHW module? I don’t have a DUU option in settings. Thanks!

    W8735S1000 is the outdoor reset module for the L7224U aquastat, W8735S1008 is the domestic hot water module for using the outdoor reset module on a boiler with an indirect tank.

    The ZR terminal is for your indirect tank, that's how you enable DHW priority. DUU needs to be set to on. All L7224 and L7248L aquastats use this function.
  • Timco
    Timco Member Posts: 3,040

    @Timco. Where are you located? Plenty of training to get you up to speed. A lot of it now online.
    Maybe you can find a local guy you can shadow for a week, see some proper cleanings, tune ups, and proper combustion set up-draft, smoke, etc.
    Actually if you know of such a person, have them come over for a full cleaning/service, set up and asks lots of questions.

    Warren RI.
    Just a guy running some pipes.
  • Timco
    Timco Member Posts: 3,040
    Sorry to keep bumping this thread but my oil guy is 2 weeks out for service and now I have an oil drip right under the white body of the burner on the floor. Is this concerning? Easily identified? Thanks.
    Just a guy running some pipes.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,270
    Yes it is. Oil leaks are not acceptable -- and if it's just recently started, something has failed or is failing.

    Cheer up. Summer's coming...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Timco
  • Timco
    Timco Member Posts: 3,040

    Yes it is. Oil leaks are not acceptable -- and if it's just recently started, something has failed or is failing.

    Cheer up. Summer's coming...

    Still need my DHW lol....
    Just a guy running some pipes.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,828
    Well it could be a bad pump seal. It is a Clean Cut pump and they dont fail often.
    Could be a loose nozzle line.
    It's a welded air tube/burner flange so pitch shouldn't be an issue.
    It's a P primary so it's got Post Purge.

    Put a foil tray or something to catch the oil under the burner and wait for your oil guy.
    Timco
  • Alan Welch
    Alan Welch Member Posts: 267
    How and why did you pull the burner? Usually the only time you need to pull the burner is to replace the end cone. Did you check the Z dimension? I would check any fittings you loosened when you pulled it.
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,152
    The burner probably needs a new nozzle and to have the retention head cleaned. Possibly it needs to have the boiler sections brushed and vacuumed. It definitely could be a bigger problem such as a bad oil pump. I'd call for emergency service, any oil service company should have emergency service available.
  • Timco
    Timco Member Posts: 3,040

    How and why did you pull the burner? Usually the only time you need to pull the burner is to replace the end cone. Did you check the Z dimension? I would check any fittings you loosened when you pulled it.

    Loosened 4 bolts twist and remove. I set it on a block not on the floor. Removed only the flat plate with vanes and replaced in exact same place to get soot off components. Very light but some buildup. I pulled it to check and clean the igniter and flame rod due to re-starts. This drip is new. I’ll call again about a service and start reading up on this burner. It can’t be that difficult. 15 years on boilers but never an oil burner is all. No fittings were loosened except the ones that clamp the shroud in place. Easy enough.

    Just a guy running some pipes.
  • Timco
    Timco Member Posts: 3,040
    So....Replaced the jet line and a new nozzle. Combustion was set with an analyzer and shutter adjustment. We were scheduled for a cleaning and when I explained there was a drip they came out same day. Love the access door on top lol. Burner face was set just right already. (Z measurement?) Thanks for the help gents.
    Just a guy running some pipes.
    SuperTech
  • Jellis
    Jellis Member Posts: 228
    @Timco anytime you find Gel and buildup on the nozzle and retention head it means that things are not running well.
    If its been a year or more then I would perform a service on the boiler changing the tank filter, pump strainer and nozzle. During that time cleaning and inspecting all components.
    a competent tech can test the fuel pump, motor, transformer and Cad cell for proper operation.
    Timco
  • Timco
    Timco Member Posts: 3,040
    Jellis said:

    @Timco anytime you find Gel and buildup on the nozzle and retention head it means that things are not running well.
    If its been a year or more then I would perform a service on the boiler changing the tank filter, pump strainer and nozzle. During that time cleaning and inspecting all components.
    a competent tech can test the fuel pump, motor, transformer and Cad cell for proper operation.

    Thanks for that. What is the Cad cell? I’m familiar with the other parts you mentioned.
    Just a guy running some pipes.
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,152
    The cad cell is the sensor that is mounted under the igniter. It measures resistance based on the light created by the burners flame. If the flame retention head becomes really dirty or if the burner is creating smoke the resistance will be high and the primary control will shut down the burner for safety. Proper operation of the cad cell can be tested with an ohm meter. Typically any readings over a thousand ohms indicates a problem.
    Jellis