HTP storge tank ultra

enniobruno

need some help please. Ive had this tank for well over 15 years and never had an issue with hot water. For the past month now the recovery is taking way to long. After the second shower we are out of hot water and takes about 2 hours. Ive checked swapped out the circulator and raised the boiler temp to195. On Saturday i completely emptied the tank and tried shocking the coil by calling for heat on the aquastat to remove any debri on it. I did this about 4 times. Still same issue. Also about 2 months agao i had a leak on my boiler so i put in a bottle of boiler stop. Could this have affected the coils?

HVACNUT

> @enniobruno said:
> Also about 2 months agao i had a leak on my boiler so i put in a bottle of boiler stop. Could this have affected the coils?


Oh yes it could. Oh yes it did. You've essentially insulated the water heater's HX.

Now you have a cracked boiler and a glopped up indirect.

How about starting a new thread titled "Need new heating system. Help with type and size please".

Grallert

You might have put a layer of "stuff on the coil but I doubt you covered it enough to greatly effect the efficiency of it. That would take a lot of oat meal. I also depends on the type of boiler seal you used also. If you used a water glass based liquid it's unlikely going to cover anything up. What kind did you use and how much?
My guess is the boiler is to blame not the tank.

enniobruno

I used 1 qt of Hercules boiler liquid.

HomerJSmith

Do you have a thermostatic mixing valve on the hot water supply to the house faucets? If you do, how old and what is the quality of your water service. My prime suspect.

You might look at the aquastat controlling the temp in the Ultra-stor. Pics help alot.

How do you know what the tank temperature is?

Are you sure that you are getting adequate flow from the boiler thru the Ultra HX ? Is this a sudden problem or something that's happening over a long period of time? Did you throttle down any valves that you forgot to open?

What Hercules product did you use? Boiler Solder? The HX on the Ultra-stor is 1". I don't think it would have an effect on heat transfer.

enniobruno

I do not have a mixing valve. it started to happen after i installed the boiler liquid. i do have a flow control valve between the boiler and the tank. i opened it last night to manual to see if i have a flow problem. So far today a few showers were taken and seems ok. i need to check when i get back home. Its a bell&gosset model sa-1 flo control. Do these valves fail?? So when i was doing the manufacture recommended shocking the coils. With the tank empty and running 190 degree water through the coil i used heat gun to measure the pipes. i had 190 coming in and about 140 returning to the boiler

hot_rod

if you measure the temperature going in the coil and out the coil when the tank is cold what is the difference, ∆T?
What circulator? If we could determine flow rate and know delta we can calculate heat transfer.

Any other piping getting warm when the indirect calls? If so a check or zone valve may be allowing some flow to a heating zone.

mattmia2

you had a 50 degree F delta t on the coil with no water around the coil?

PerryHolzman

My guess is that the boiler sealer gunked up the flow control valve (and possibly other flow control items) and thus restricting the boiler water flow through the indirect tank coil.

You may need to take that apart and clean/repair it, or replace it.

You are unlikely to have affected the heat transfer of the coil much.

Perry

enniobruno

Still need help. Been playing around for 2weeks. I removed flo control replaced taco007 bypassed relay box and aquastat. I get tank hot. 2showers and no more hot water. Then takes 2 -3 hours to get tank back to 140 degrees. Taco is running all the time. When I check pipe from boiler to tank and it's super hot but return is ice cold. I open purge valve and get very little water. It's driving me nuts. This system has worked for 15 years no issues

mattmia2

Is there a strainer in there somewhere? Some pictures of the system? Is there air preventing flow in the coil? Can you force purge it?

enniobruno

I’ve spent 3 hours on Saturday purging. When I do purge the water comes out very slowly.

enniobruno

What is force purge?

BillyO

matt may be on to something, remove screen from strainer and see if its clogged, if there still is a screen

enniobruno

I don’t have a strainer

hot_rod

Here is a Y strainer in the piping. Unless it has been removed there is a strainer inside that may need to be cleaned.

enniobruno

So when I open that spigot on the y I have good flow. You suggest that I remove spigot and get to strainer? Also my wife just took a 10 min shower and I checked pipe goo in into tank and it was hot. Cold returning to boiler. I once removing some water from spigot near circ pipe started to get a little warm. If I only open spigot with yellow valve to circ off I get little flow. Its only while I have spigot open and I open yellow valve and then close spigot while I’m getting boiler water to come out that’s when the water from tank warms up

coby

yes remove, if you look at the picture hot_rod sent you the water will flow through the middle of the strainer and out the spigot.

Grallert

Close the yellow handled valve near the pepsi bottle attach a hose to the boiler drain also near the pepsi bottle fold the hose and open the drain increase the pressure to the boiler and gradually unfold the hose letting water out to prevent the boiler pressure from reaching 30psi. do you get any air? How is the flow? What's the temp like? Sounds air bound to me but there is an off chance that that strainer is blocked up.

enniobruno

Is there an email that I can send u guys A video of water flow from spigot?

Boon

Pardon my [homeowner] jumping in [sticking my neck out] to make an observation/suggestion:

Then takes 2 -3 hours to get tank back to 140 degrees. Taco is running all the time. When I check pipe from boiler to tank and it's super hot but return is ice cold

The taco can't be running all the time, can it? There has been no mention of short cycling but the hot water coming out of the boiler has to be going somewhere for 2-3 hours or else it would (a) short cycle or (b) limit trip or (c) heat the DHW, right, or ok maybe (d) fresh water coming in, getting heated, then going down a drain?

Could the water be diverting through the heat system via a path of least resistance, or perhaps a poorly-wired/conceived control strategy is only presenting problems now because of a failed component.

enniobruno

Sorry I failed to mention that Taco is running because aqua stat on tank is made calling for water

enniobruno

Pretty simple system aqua stat goes to an Argo relay box. Relay powers circulator. I’m an electrician. I’ve checked all components and they are all working fine

hot_rod

flow restriction somewhere, the flo control valve can be forced open.
Or the chemical you added clogged the strainer, my first choice.

Or the piping is airlocked.

enniobruno

So yesterday I close the feed for the boiler valve and the cirque valve I put a water hose on the strainer Spigot and a drain hose on the cir Spigot just to see if there was any restriction. Flow was great came right out. So when I shut the cirque Spicket off I kept water on until I closed the valves. Basically filling the loop and the coil with water. Turned everything back on and I immediately started feeling the warm water by the circulator pump. So After my wife showered this morning I drained water again like I described earlier it’s still hot even after my son took a shower around 11 am. When this fails I will open and check the strainer. One thing though like I said earlier when I open that Spicket water flows with no issue

PerryHolzman

I suggest you take apart the Y strainer. Flow though it's drain valve tells you almost nothing about if the strainer is plugged or not. Take a picture of the "As Found" strainer element and post it here...

IF its an American Y strainer mfr (or possibly some European companies) you can probably get replacement elements and even new end caps. At least in power plants we could by replacement strainers and end caps for Y strainers installed 30-50 years ago.

Hope that helps,

Perry

hot_rod

They can be a bear to open up, it may take a few large wrenches.

BillyO

remove it all together, not needed

enniobruno

Ok gotcha. Was planning to do that

enniobruno

thank you Gentlemen. The strainer was complete plugged. See pics. I think my hot water issue is solved.

PerryHolzman

Good job. I hope you put it back in as now you can see what it has kept out of the rest of the system.

Happy showers for all...

Perry

BillyO

Great, always go with the most obvious first when troubleshooting

hot_rod

enniobruno said:

thank you Gentlemen. The strainer was complete plugged. See pics. I think my hot water issue is solved.

Great pics! I'm doing a Shop Talk presentation tomorrow evening on dirt and mag separation in hydronics, can I use those pics. Credit noted of course

enniobruno

Of Course!!!!

enniobruno

Good morning. Have a quick question. when I was trouble shooting my hot water problem I removed the flo control going into The storage tank. It seems my hot water is way too hot I cannot control with the aquastat on the storage tank. I know it’s because the heat is still on and I’m getting really hot water passing through the coil.
Should I put the flow control back? Will that Correct my problem. I have never had an issue with it being this hot in the past. Right now I have 160 degree water at faucet.

HVACNUT

Yes! The water will just gravitate hot to cold 24/7/365 otherwise.
Why did you remove it?
What model circulator is on that loop?
Is it possible to install an internal flow check in it?

enniobruno

I removed it because I was trying to eliminate
Everything that was causing me not to have hot water. I have a taco 007. Can I install a check valve instead of the flow control?