Bell & Gossett Rattling

slrstcs

Hi- I have an electric boiler for radiant baseboard heat, set up to run 4 different zones.
The system has a Bell & Gossett circulator pump that seems to be rattling consistently.

From the engravings on the side- I think the model is M09181?

Also has the following info-
1/12 HP
1725 rpm
60 cy
Alternating Current Motor

Is this a problem I should try and diagnose, or just replace the whole pump? Further- what pump should I replace this with?

I have a service contract with a local HVAC company and suffice it to say they make a lot of mistakes. Point in case- there's a LOT of oil around this pump on the floor. I'm assuming the pump either leaks oil- or more likely, they are seriously over oiling this thing.

Any idea what I can do?

Thanks so much.

Ironman

If the pump is over-oiled, the oil will leak down onto the rubber grommets that support the motor. The oil will deteriorate the grommets and the motor will become mis-aligned in relation to the pump shaft which will cause the coupling to go bad. That's what you're hearing is the coupling.

If it hasn't gone too far, you may get by replacing the coupling and grommets.

If the entire circulator needs replacing, you'd be better off with a wet rotor circ like a Grundfos ups15-58. It will bolt right back in where B&G series 100 now is.

unclejohn

What he said.

slrstcs

Excellent- thanks for your help! I’m leaning towards just replacing the B&G with the model you recommended- is that exact model the one you’d recommend most? Parts for the B&G look to be about 45$ or so at least.

I think this is the Grundfos model you mentioned, up on amazon-
Grundfos UPS15-58FC Cast Iron Circulation Pump with 35.6 Degree Low Temperature https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009PAPW40/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_xNoqEbW2938DT

Would I need to pick up any extra o-rings or gaskets or anything like that?

Aside from the way the Grundfos uses water to lubricate itself, would there be any other changes in functionality or anything like that I should take into consideration?

Do I have to set it up or calibrate it or anything? Sorry for the somewhat dim questions.

Thanks for your help!

SuperTech

The new pump should come with new O rings. Install it and it's good to go.

Ironman

You may need new flange bolts. Clean the pipe flanges up so they're smooth. The new pump is 3 speed; try it on medium speed first and if everything heats okay, you can leave it there. Make sure you know how to isolate the pump or drain the system and purge the air when refilling it.

slrstcs

Thanks guys! In this case- is the pump separate from the motor?

slrstcs

As in- do I need to swap a motor out also? My b&g pump/motor looks somewhat larger than the grundfos I see online

JUGHNE

The old school B&G was a 3 piece unit. Repairable in all respects, designed for the days when things were actually repaired.

Yes the Groundfos is all inclusive pump and motor.

The voltage on your old pump did say 115 or 120 volts, didn't it?

slrstcs

It does- 115!

Does the difference in HP matter? I think the grundfos is like 1/25, whereas the b&g is 1/12

slrstcs

Bah- actually, maybe that isn’t gonna be a solid replacement at half the horsepower of what I have

SuperTech

Lol, it's a perfectly good replacement, and will use less power to operate and is maintenance free. Unless you enjoy oiling the B&G and replacing broken couplings.
I'd consider replacing it with a Grundfos Alpha.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

I'm interested in your electric boiler. Do you have any pictures to share?

slrstcs

Thanks! I’ll post some photos when I get home from work.

So does the horsepower not matter here?

JUGHNE

That was the standard B&G pump of the time.
Worked for most cases most of the time.....electricity was not a concern.

SuperTech

Much like the cars and everything else of its day, size and efficiency didn't matter much.

slrstcs

Interesting- so the motor has less horsepower, but moves more water. Is it supposed to have a slightly shorter lifespan?

JUGHNE

Everything has a shorter lifespan.
There is a date code on your old pump, usually after the part #,
2 or 3 characters.... for example F29 or such.
Post that and we might be able to tell you it's age.

slrstcs

Here are some quick shots of my boiler

slrstcs

Another one

slrstcs

Circulator

Icarus

Electric boiler...sounds like a great candidate for a hot water heat pump conversion. what temps are you running, what kinds of emitters do you have? Icarus

hot_rod

For a bit more money you could replace with a high efficiency ECM type. Grundfos Alpha, Taco 0018e, B&G Vario, Armstrong Compass, Aquamotion for example

slrstcs

We’re in SW Ohio- with a lotta big windows and a vaulted ceiling in our living room. So it can unfortunately take a lot of electricity to get the house up to temp when we hit cold spells.

I think our radiant baseboard heaters are called copper fin heaters.

I’ve never heard of a hot water heat pump conversion- going to look it up! Would love any info you care to share.

I actually need to maybe make a separate post because two upstairs rooms don’t seem to be getting heat. The previous owners set up the system, so I’m not quite sure which zone feeds those rooms. Not even sure how to begin troubleshooting this

slrstcs

@hot_rod - how could I determine which model to order? I hate to over or under power the system. Actually planning to finally order a replacement part today. Any suggestions would be awesome- was just about to pull the trigger on the UPS15-58.

Also- would I want the ups15-58 or the ups15-58fc?

Thanks everybody!

Icarus

Heat pump hot water radiant heating...

Should be able to see cops certainly in the threes, probably higher in your climate:

https://www.pmmag.com/articles/99988-simplified-piping-for-heat-pump-mod-con-boiler

https://www.chiltrix.com/documents/CX34-spec-sheet.pdf

Ironman

slrstcs said:

@hot_rod - how could I determine which model to order? I hate to over or under power the system. Actually planning to finally order a replacement part today. Any suggestions would be awesome- was just about to pull the trigger on the UPS15-58.



Also- would I want the ups15-58 or the ups15-58fc?



Thanks everybody!

The Alpha has approximately the same curve as the ups15-58.

Before you order, what's the KW or btu rating of your boiler? It's on the tag.

slrstcs

@hot_rod - The boiler says 109,000 btu/hr

slrstcs

In my case- would you suggest the ups15-58 or the ups15-58fC

Ironman

You need to move about 11 gpm through the boiler. The ups15-58 can do that - assuming that you have no unusual piping. The "FC" suffix means it has a flow check. That's not required for a system with a single circulator.

slrstcs

such a dumb question - but how can I tell if I have unusual piping?

Ironman

I see no indication of it from your pics.