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Bell & Gossett Rattling

slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
Hi- I have an electric boiler for radiant baseboard heat, set up to run 4 different zones.
The system has a Bell & Gossett circulator pump that seems to be rattling consistently.

From the engravings on the side- I think the model is M09181?

Also has the following info-
1/12 HP
1725 rpm
60 cy
Alternating Current Motor

Is this a problem I should try and diagnose, or just replace the whole pump? Further- what pump should I replace this with?

I have a service contract with a local HVAC company and suffice it to say they make a lot of mistakes. Point in case- there's a LOT of oil around this pump on the floor. I'm assuming the pump either leaks oil- or more likely, they are seriously over oiling this thing.

Any idea what I can do?

Thanks so much.

Comments

  • IronmanIronman Posts: 5,463Member
    If the pump is over-oiled, the oil will leak down onto the rubber grommets that support the motor. The oil will deteriorate the grommets and the motor will become mis-aligned in relation to the pump shaft which will cause the coupling to go bad. That's what you're hearing is the coupling.

    If it hasn't gone too far, you may get by replacing the coupling and grommets.

    If the entire circulator needs replacing, you'd be better off with a wet rotor circ like a Grundfos ups15-58. It will bolt right back in where B&G series 100 now is.
    Bob Boan


    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • unclejohnunclejohn Posts: 1,452Member
    What he said.
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    Excellent- thanks for your help! I’m leaning towards just replacing the B&G with the model you recommended- is that exact model the one you’d recommend most? Parts for the B&G look to be about 45$ or so at least.

    I think this is the Grundfos model you mentioned, up on amazon-
    Grundfos UPS15-58FC Cast Iron Circulation Pump with 35.6 Degree Low Temperature https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009PAPW40/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_xNoqEbW2938DT

    Would I need to pick up any extra o-rings or gaskets or anything like that?

    Aside from the way the Grundfos uses water to lubricate itself, would there be any other changes in functionality or anything like that I should take into consideration?

    Do I have to set it up or calibrate it or anything? Sorry for the somewhat dim questions.

    Thanks for your help!
  • SuperTechSuperTech Posts: 1,160Member
    The new pump should come with new O rings. Install it and it's good to go.
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 5,463Member
    You may need new flange bolts. Clean the pipe flanges up so they're smooth. The new pump is 3 speed; try it on medium speed first and if everything heats okay, you can leave it there. Make sure you know how to isolate the pump or drain the system and purge the air when refilling it.
    Bob Boan


    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    Thanks guys! In this case- is the pump separate from the motor?
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    As in- do I need to swap a motor out also? My b&g pump/motor looks somewhat larger than the grundfos I see online
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 6,530Member
    The old school B&G was a 3 piece unit. Repairable in all respects, designed for the days when things were actually repaired.

    Yes the Groundfos is all inclusive pump and motor.

    The voltage on your old pump did say 115 or 120 volts, didn't it?
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    It does- 115!

    Does the difference in HP matter? I think the grundfos is like 1/25, whereas the b&g is 1/12
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    Bah- actually, maybe that isn’t gonna be a solid replacement at half the horsepower of what I have
  • SuperTechSuperTech Posts: 1,160Member
    Lol, it's a perfectly good replacement, and will use less power to operate and is maintenance free. Unless you enjoy oiling the B&G and replacing broken couplings.
    I'd consider replacing it with a Grundfos Alpha.
  • I'm interested in your electric boiler. Do you have any pictures to share?
    Often wrong, never in doubt.

    Click here to learn more about this contractor.
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    Thanks! I’ll post some photos when I get home from work.

    So does the horsepower not matter here?
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 6,530Member
    That was the standard B&G pump of the time.
    Worked for most cases most of the time.....electricity was not a concern.
  • SuperTechSuperTech Posts: 1,160Member
    Much like the cars and everything else of its day, size and efficiency didn't matter much.
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    Interesting- so the motor has less horsepower, but moves more water. Is it supposed to have a slightly shorter lifespan?
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 6,530Member
    edited February 10
    Everything has a shorter lifespan.
    There is a date code on your old pump, usually after the part #,
    2 or 3 characters.... for example F29 or such.
    Post that and we might be able to tell you it's age.
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    edited February 10
    Here are some quick shots of my boiler
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 103Member
    Electric boiler...sounds like a great candidate for a hot water heat pump conversion. what temps are you running, what kinds of emitters do you have? Icarus
  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 12,578Member
    For a bit more money you could replace with a high efficiency ECM type. Grundfos Alpha, Taco 0018e, B&G Vario, Armstrong Compass, Aquamotion for example
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    We’re in SW Ohio- with a lotta big windows and a vaulted ceiling in our living room. So it can unfortunately take a lot of electricity to get the house up to temp when we hit cold spells.

    I think our radiant baseboard heaters are called copper fin heaters.

    I’ve never heard of a hot water heat pump conversion- going to look it up! Would love any info you care to share.

    I actually need to maybe make a separate post because two upstairs rooms don’t seem to be getting heat. The previous owners set up the system, so I’m not quite sure which zone feeds those rooms. Not even sure how to begin troubleshooting this
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    @hot_rod - how could I determine which model to order? I hate to over or under power the system. Actually planning to finally order a replacement part today. Any suggestions would be awesome- was just about to pull the trigger on the UPS15-58.

    Also- would I want the ups15-58 or the ups15-58fc?

    Thanks everybody!
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 103Member
    edited February 12
    Heat pump hot water radiant heating...

    Should be able to see cops certainly in the threes, probably higher in your climate:

    https://www.pmmag.com/articles/99988-simplified-piping-for-heat-pump-mod-con-boiler

    https://www.chiltrix.com/documents/CX34-spec-sheet.pdf
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 5,463Member
    slrstcs said:

    @hot_rod - how could I determine which model to order? I hate to over or under power the system. Actually planning to finally order a replacement part today. Any suggestions would be awesome- was just about to pull the trigger on the UPS15-58.



    Also- would I want the ups15-58 or the ups15-58fc?



    Thanks everybody!

    The Alpha has approximately the same curve as the ups15-58.

    Before you order, what's the KW or btu rating of your boiler? It's on the tag.

    Bob Boan


    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    @hot_rod - The boiler says 109,000 btu/hr
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    In my case- would you suggest the ups15-58 or the ups15-58fC
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 5,463Member
    edited February 14
    You need to move about 11 gpm through the boiler. The ups15-58 can do that - assuming that you have no unusual piping. The "FC" suffix means it has a flow check. That's not required for a system with a single circulator.
    Bob Boan


    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • slrstcsslrstcs Posts: 16Member
    such a dumb question - but how can I tell if I have unusual piping?
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 5,463Member
    I see no indication of it from your pics.
    Bob Boan


    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
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