Help identifying a vent

SteveKaus

Hey gang.

New home buyer here. 97 year old steam heating system (new parts, boiler, and such obvi) and I’ve finished replacing most of the air vents on all of the rads (since I don’t know how long they had been on).

System working very well with a few pressure issues I need to suss out. One cause of which might be my question here.

There are three original rads built into the walls and window seats with air vents that I’ve never seen the likes of which before.

Any ideas what I should be doing for venting on these rads.

Pics attached.

Thanks in advance
Steve

ScottSecor

Those appear to be manual "key bleeders" that we use on hot water heating systems. You would stick your flat- head screwdriver in that slot on the top and open it until all the air purged out and the water started trickling. Then close it and leave it alone.

If you do in fact have a steam (only) system, I think you might want to consider replacing those hot water type system bleeders with air vents made for steam. We prefer Gorton brand vents. Is there any chance that you have steam boiler with a hot water loop off the boiler that feeds this (and perhaps others) with hot water

By the way those cast iron radiators give off a lot of BTUs for their size. I would not be in a hurry to replace them.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Need some pic. Sure it's not gravity hot water??

Hap_Hazzard

I'm pretty sure that's an American New Murray Radiator you have pictured there. They could be used for steam and hot water, so it doesn't shed any light on that question. Definitely hold on to them. As @ScottSecor says, they put out lots of heat, and being cast iron, they hold their heat longer between heating cycles.

For venting, we need to know what kind of system this is. If it's hot water, those are probably appropriate. If it's steam, it depends on whether it's one-pipe or two-pipe, so we need to see the boiler trim (the controls attached to the boiler) and both ends of your radiators. Near-boiler piping would be useful too.

SteveKaus

Thanks gang.

Def steam heat. Two pics of boiler and piping attached. HARD to get pics of radiator end pipes as they are built into some woodwork and plaster. But I’ll work on that.

Worth noting that these ancient gems are the last of the house (3 floors) to get warm (which is why I’m keen on replacing the vents) but they hold that heat for a long time.

Thanks in advance.

Hap_Hazzard

Uh-oh. That's some nasty near-boiler piping! It's not only bad from a functional perspective, but it can destroy your boiler. That's got to be redone.

Anyway, back to the vents…

If you can't get pictures of the ends of the radiators, just take a look and see if there's a pipe connected to each end. If there's only one, you just need basic radiator vents, and there are lots of opinions here about what kind is best, so we'll hold off on that for now. If there are two pipes, we need to figure out what kind of two-pipe system you have.

Most two-pipe systems don't use radiator vents, so the fact that you're getting any heat at all now leads me to suspect that's what you've got, so instead of radiator vents, you'll have a variety of different traps and vents and will need to ascertain if they're working or if they need to be replaced or rebuilt. I'm not very knowledgeable about two-pipe steam, but we have a lot of experts here. You might want to go through the "Find a Contractor" page to find a local expert who can come out and look your system over and maybe give you an estimate on repiping that boiler.

Where are you located?

SteveKaus

All the other rads in the house have only one pipe. And I’ve replaced all those air vents. So that would lead me to believe it’s a one pipe system.

Located in Montclair NJ

SteveKaus

Also @Hap_Hazzard ive had three Different plumbers out to quote and ultimately replace a rusted steam pipe and the Hartford loop... no one has expressed concern about the near boiler piping. What causes alarm for you?

Hap_Hazzard

Okay then, that makes it easier.

What you need is a standard radiator vent that screws into a fitting on the end of the radiator opposite the supply pipe. Also, make sure the valve on the supply side is all the way open. Valves on one-pipe steam systems should always be either fully open or fully closed.

Radiator vents come in a variety of types and sizes. (By "sizes" we usually mean the venting rate, not the physical size.) Most of the professional steam men here agree that Gorton makes the best radiator vents, but the trouble is, you don't know what size you need yet, and trial and error can get expensive with Gortons.

Another popular vent is the Ventrite #1, which is adjustable, so you can balance your radiators by adjusting the vents. They also use an alcohol capsule that produces an audible "pop" when the vent closes. Some people find that annoying; others like to know when their radiator vents are closing.

My personal preference is to use Jacobus Maid O' Mist vents which are similar to the Gortons, but they're much cheaper and use interchangeable vent-ports that make balancing easy.

Before you can start balancing your radiators, however, you need to vent your mains. Main vents should be faster than radiator vents, and the correct size depends on the number of mains, the pipe size and the length(s) of the main(s). Get those measurements and we'll take it from there.

Hap_Hazzard

SteveKaus said:

Also @Hap_Hazzard ive had three Different plumbers out to quote and ultimately replace a rusted steam pipe and the Hartford loop... no one has expressed concern about the near boiler piping. What causes alarm for you?

My apologies! I mistook that return pipe for a second riser, so I thought what you had there was two risers connected by inflexible pipe and a bullhead tee connecting your system riser. On closer inspection, your piping is correct!

SteveKaus

No apology needed!

Re old rad vents. I guess the hardest part is going to be finding air vents with the lowest physical profile. These are all top mount but, crazily, there are window boxes and/or walls built directly around them so there is not nearly enough room for the usual height of the air vents. If only they were angle mounted on the side like the upstairs rads. Or are there other vents on the market that have a low low height. Hmmm

Re vent mains. Yes, that’s actually my next project. I have two mains. Both ~ 33’ long with 2.5” piping. They are currently vented at the end of each main with one of those silver bullet vents (prob from Home Depot). I’m considering Replacing each one with a Gorton #1.

Thanks!

Hap_Hazzard

I think a Gorton #1 might be too slow. You might want to consider a Barnes & Jones Big Mouth.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Barnes-Jones-BJ-3BM-Big-Mouth-Air-Vent

There has been a spate of defective ones recently, but hopefully they've fixed the problem, but at any rate, they replace them no charge if they fail.

BTW, if you do decide to buy anything from SupplyHouse, you should go there by clicking one of their ads on this site so HeatingHelp get's credit. SupplyHouse sponsors this site.

Another thing you might try, if you don't want to get rid of that ⅛" bushing, would be to get a brass ⅛" tee fitting and stick a Gorton D in each end. The D is a radiator vent that has the same venting rate as the #1, so you'd have double the venting rate of a Gorton #1, but still less than a #2 or a Big Mouth.

ethicalpaul

Hi there Montclair neighbor! There’s so much steam in NJ!

I thought the piping was bad too on first look! 😅

What’s the setting on that pressuretrol? Make it be at the bottom.

Gsmith

Looks like you need a straight (not angle style) convector vent for those radiators ( they are really convectors) like a Hoffman 4$, or adjustable Hoffman 1b, available from supply house.com, Amazon.com, or many plumbing/heating supply stores. You should make sure your steam mains are properly vented, and pressuretrol is turned down as suggested by @ethicalpaul.

Hap_Hazzard

All of the Maid O' Mist vents are available in straight or angled versions. (See attached.) Gortons might be too, but I don't have the literature for them.

BobC

The one thing I see on your piping is it looks like you have two mains being fed off one T on the boiler header. This can lead to balancing problems but if your not having problems getting steam to one steam main vs the other leave it alone.

Best practice would be for each main to come directly off the boiler header. That said if the system seems to be working, leave it be - no need to go searching for problems that aren't there.

Bob

SteveKaus

Huge thank you to everyone for your input. Will keep you all posted on the status.

As I said, my biggest obstacle is going to be a VERY limited amount of clearance on the top of these OLD rads that need venting. I don't think there's a vertical air vent out there that's under 2" in height...and even then I'm not sure if that will fit given the way these rads are built into the walls / window seats.

More as I learn it but THANK YOU to all.

Gsmith

i almost hate to mention it but the Heat Timer Varivalve in the straight version is probably the shortet convector vent made. BUT....big BUT, these vents are very fast even when in the closed position and have often been found to make balancing one pipe system very nearly impossible, so perhaps try one, set it on the slowest setting, make sure you have very high capacity steam vents on your steam mains or these vents may steal steam from the ends of mains or radiators further down the steam main. I am very hesitate to mention them, as they have caused may people lots of balancing problems. They have worked ok on some systems I know of. But your mileage may vary.