Plumbing a new wall toilet

hankwylerjr

I'm about to run a 3 inch sewer line from my old cast waste in my basement up through to my attic. I already have a pipe chase and installed a ten foot piece of 3 inch pvc. I'm looking to install a floor toilet but it's going to be a model like the wall toilets because I don't have the room to get a decent pitch. Any ideas or suggestions would be great. I'm familiar with most basic plumbing just don't want to glue everything to find out it's not right thanks in advance

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

I like the Grohe wall carriers. There's a bit of a learning curve, but relatively easy to install. Lots of youtube videos.

I believe all the carriers need a 2 x 6 wall.

Stay with cast iron pipe, especially in the attic where there's living space below. PVC is very noisy.

claptonv

I just installed a Kohler and they make both 2x6 and 2x4 wall carrier ,it was pretty straight forward . Im a 40 yr building trade plumber and always want each fixture vented . Mine was put into a concrete block wall and I did put a piece of steel across the top to carry the block load so was a bit more work but its a 2x4 carrier and cant create stoppage if I wanted to , only draw back is the diameter of the water pool is small and have to give the mini flush ( pee pee flush ) to wet the china so the poop doesnt hit dry china and need constant cleaning

hankwylerjr

I like these wall toilet style. I'm looking into it now but I am worried about the 3 inch pvc. I am not an expert on the way the pipes will exactly run. I'd like to upload a sketch of my proposed design not sure if this will be the correct forum? Thanks for the help

claptonv

worried in what way ?

mattmia2

There are also conventional tank toilets with the outlet out the back like a commercial toilet, that might be much less costly.

ChrisJ

If it helps I'm currently ripping all my cast iron out and replacing it with PVC.


PVC is noisy but cast iron has its own problems that are much worse.

claptonv

if youre worried about 3 inch being too small , dont since its larger than trapway of toilet . the carrier was about 425 $ and toilet the same ; about the cost of a Kohler one piece san raphael which i think flush fantastic , but the nickel actuator plate was not cheap 125 $ i think mostly plastic

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

mattmia2 said:

There are also conventional tank toilets with the outlet out the back like a commercial toilet, that might be much less costly.

Less costly, but way more troublesome in my opinion. And you don't save space like you do with the carrier system. The tank is in the wall.

There is also a coolness factor.

sallaberry

Just use primer and you’ll be fine I wouldn’t waste time or money on a wall mount unless that’s the look your going for.

mattmia2

The standard tank toilet will also use standard parts you can get at any hardware store.

Intplm.

If something like this works for you. This type of toilet sits on the floor but discharges out the back and not the floor. They are residential toilets that has conventional repair parts readily available when needed. You do not need a wall carrier for this type of toilet, so it is also more economical to purchase.
The rear discharge gives you the room for more pitch as you say you need in your first post. Hope this helps.

hankwylerjr

@Intplm. looks like a great idea going to look at them but probably buy one. Do you have any idea of how to install? Standard 3 inch pvc elbows to the main I'm assuming. I'm going to tie them into my existing 2 inch vent with a tee. I have to cut a piece out of the cast 4 inch vertical main and install a fernco angled tee or something. Any idea what to use to tie that it with the proper parts? Thanks

Intplm.

Commonly, you would install the drain the same way on the wall as you would on the floor.
Most, not all, are bolted with a common closet flange. All you should have to do is install the flange on the wall according to the manufacturer's instructions.

mattmia2

I assume all your 90's should be long sweep in the waste side of it.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Intplm.

@mattmia2 long sweeps are a good idea. The only place they are not required however is the discharge of a toilet.
And @Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes on the above drawing, where it shows a 3 x 2 low heel 90.
That should be a 3 x 2 x 3 tee wye. Offering a 2 inch vent.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

That's exactly what a 3 x 2 low heel 90 is. At least, that's what we call them out West.

Intplm.

Ah! Very good. @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

A 3 x 2 in my neck of the woods here in New England is three inch on the run of the TY and two inch on the branch.

But when a change in dimension is on the run it would be a three by two by three inch TY.

Intplm.

Either either, neither niether🙂

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

I think you're absolutely right on the 3x2x3 @Intplm. , but for some reason, we've always called it 3x2.

JUGHNE

I have never roughed in a floor mount/wall outlet WC.
Is there any provisions for vertical adjustment?
If not then the final finished floor needs to be considered for exact alignment.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

You have to be right on the money, otherwise the wax ring will not mate with the horn of the toilet.

ChrisJ

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes said:

You have to be right on the money, otherwise the wax ring will not mate with the horn of the toilet.

Aren't you suppose to install the wax ring on the toilet first?

I know............that's going to start some arguments.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

@ChrisJ "Aren't you suppose to install the wax ring on the toilet first?"

Different technique, same result, no?

ChrisJ

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes said:

@ChrisJ "Aren't you suppose to install the wax ring on the toilet first?"

Different technique, same result, no?

I've yet to do one, but will soon. So I can't comment. Even then, after doing one I won't have an opinion.

I'm just parroting the arguments I've seen all over regarding it.

Intplm.

I have installed them.
Wax on the bowl horn or the closet flange? It really doesn't matter.
As long as the rough in measurements are correct, the installation should be just fine.
The tank bolts install the same too.
The bowl will also fasten to the floor with lag screws or equivalent fasteners, along with some extra bolt caps to hide the screws used in the floor.

TAG

I'm on my second project using wall toilets -- Geberit carrier for 2x6 walls and Duravit toilets with rim flush and the special glass coating. Work great .. the control plates are expensive if you want metal. I like floating vanities -- so these go well.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

TAG said:

I'm on my second project using wall toilets -- Geberit carrier for 2x6 walls and Duravit toilets with rim flush and the special glass coating. Work great .. the control plates are expensive if you want metal. I like floating vanities -- so these go well.

A much better option (in my opinion). More expensive, but it's a very clean look and there's no footprint on the floor; easy cleaning.

Every time I've seen those Kohler floor mounted, rear flushing toilets, the floor and sheetrock are stained from leaks.

hankwylerjr

Anyone have an idea on how to get this cast iron drain to accept a sanitary tee or other fernco setup to allow me to run my new 3 inch pvc drain from the attic both toilet sink properly and fairly cost effective? Thinking of Sawzall look for a tee or other fitting cut out a small section so I can get it done

mattmia2

I would cut it above that saddle and pull everything out of that hub just above the floor and replace that, the cleanout, and your new y with pvc and use a fernco doughnut or lead and caulk the pvc in to that hub. You might need to cut the floor and connect to the ell below the floor or connect with a hubless fitting to the horizontal portion below the floor.

You can cut it with a sawzall, an angle grinder, a combination of both, or you can rent a tool with a chain with cutters that wraps around the pipe and tightens down and snaps it.

JUGHNE

I have made that connection with your situation without cutting any cast iron or concrete.

IIWM, I would remove the PVC clean out plug/fitting that is on the base of the CI stack.
Replace it with a 3" PVC WYE, the branch of the wye would face straight up for your bath DWV connection, the run of the wye would go into the CI wye branch and the other end of the run would get the CO plug.

I would try to compact the assembly/clean it up by using a 4 X 3 Fernco donut directly into the CI CO branch. (No rubber couplings would be showing that way---sturdier connection also)
Then a Fitting CO adapter with plug into the PVC wye.
You may have to relocate the cold water hose bib on the wall.

May not meet some codes, but I have done it several times with no problem. Good flow connections and you will vent your bathroom group upstairs separately anyway.

The existing PVC saddle on the side of the stack may not be code either.

hankwylerjr

@JUGHNE codes here are pretty lax here no worries. I however have a problem with your proposed setup. My 3 inch will come straight down on the other side (right side) of the now pvc cleanout. Can I still somehow get this to work? Use some elbows at the top etc? ty

JUGHNE

I would come straight up and then use 45's to match up with your new drop.
Easier with 90's, but the 45's give better and quieter flow.
If needed I make a long sweep 90 with a street 45 glued into a standard 45.

What does that 2" with the trap on it drain?

hankwylerjr

@JUGHNE I might draw something take it to plum supply so Im certain of the parts... that 2 inch is a front load washer it shouldnt be an issue but like i said trying to come down about a foot away to the right of the main cast will be interesting for me Im assuming

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

If you don't mind doing the extra work, cut a new wye into the stack. Get rid of that saddle tee at the same time.

mattmia2

If you want it to be legal, the cleanout needs to be the size of the line that it is cleaning or larger.

hankwylerjr

Hello all. I finally had the time to dry fit my 3 inch new sewer line. I didn't glue it yet am wondering if I can run the pipes as pictured?

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Very nice!

ChrisJ

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think you're allowed to use a wye like that? Shouldn't that be a dwv tee?

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

A wye is better than a tee. Totally OK.