Zone valve

1234fred

When the thermastat is calling for heat I get 24 volts to the zone valve terminal block but just as soon as I hook up the zone valve the output of 24 volts goes away even though its calling for heat..

Solid_Fuel_Man

Define "hook up the zone valve".

Do you mean connect the 2 wires you previously had 24vac on?

1234fred

yes

1234fred

That happens on all four zones

1234fred

The light on the board that shows it calling for an output also goes out.

Zman

What model valve and controller?

1234fred

2000

1234fred

will have to get back to ya its at a friends house

1234fred

Energy Kinetics and the zone valve is Taco

HVACNUT

Not sure when EK used Honeywell zone valves but it seems there's a back feed or a secondary 24v power source on that circuit.

Disconnect the zone valve wires for the problem zone at the Manager and check for 24v at the Manager terminals Z? and 24v with and without a heat demand. Without the load of the ZV motor it should read 24v and 0 respectively.
Then check Z? to ground and 24v to ground.

Is that zone connected to an air handler or other device?

szwedj

Was the manager or zone valve replaced? What may be happening here is that the newer managers have built-in protection on the outputs and if there is and over draw, the output will actually shut off. If the Taco zone valve is the heat motor type, they tend to draw more current then the manger output is rated, you will either need to isolate it with a relay or change the zone valve to a non heat motor type. Hope this helps. Joe

Zman

Old 3 wire Tacos? Do you have a part number or schematic for the EK?

1234fred

Thanks I will check it out and get back to ya

STEVEusaPA

This post has the slowest dribble of information...

Solid_Fuel_Man

@1234fred if you take us some pictures of the boiler, and valves when you are there we may be able to tell a lot of this stuff from them.

Get a few general overall pictures and some of the specifics as well.

1234fred

Its got a new manager. The old was was same brand but a 2000

Zman

So all the white wires from terminal 2 on the zone valves are tied to the 24 VAC terminal on the energy manager and the red wires from terminal 1 are tied to their respective zone terminals?
Where are your multimeter probes when the voltage goes to zero.

rick in Alaska

My guess is your 24 volt power supply has a really bad connection leaving it and is not sending any power out. Check all the wire connections. If for some reason there is, say, just one strand of a stranded wire that is hooked up, then it won't be able to handle much of a load on it, but will show 24 volts with no load on it.
Rick

HVACNUT

New Manager new problem?

Wallies, can that type Taco zone valve ground out internally? It's never happened to me before. Just wondering.

Solid_Fuel_Man

Sure it can ground out. It's a metal case.

@1234fred didnt you say it was all of the valves doing this? Or just this one problem child?

szwedj

@1234fred That new manager has the current protection on the outputs that I mentioned previously. Older mangers did not have this protection and would sometimes work with heat motor zone valves like you have. To use these zone valves you are going to need to isolate them with relays and power them with their own transformer. To be honest, while they may have worked previously, Energy Kinetics has never recommended using heat motor zone valves because of how slow they are to open. Literally the the burner can fire on a call for heat, preheat the boiler and shut off on temperature all before that zone valve would open. Your options in this case will be to isolate them or replace them with the faster opening valves like the Erie/Caleffi/Honeywell style zone valves. We have drawings available that show how to isolate and wire them if needed.
Joe

1234fred

Thanks szwedj I am thanking the same way you are. haven't done it yet am leaving it up to the owner to make the decision
It will be cheaper and a lot less work than changing out the zone valves Its been below zero at night also

1234fred

Thanks for all the input

EBEBRATT-Ed

@1234fred I agree with @rick in Alaska about the 24 volts. Either the transformer is too small, bad, or you have some bad wiring. At least that what it sounds like

Sounds like you have power and then put a load on it you loose it.

That's a problem with digital meters, they will pick up ghost voltage and don't load the wiring

szwedj

@ebebratt-ed while it’s definitely a good idea to check the wiring and verify the voltage of the transformer (we use a 50va xfmr for up to 5 zones). That manager will still turn the outputs back off (over draw protection) when heat motor zone valves are used.
Joe