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Trap on the equalizer ?

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Ron Jr._3
Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
edited October 2019 in THE MAIN WALL
2 pipe steam. Boiler cracked so we were there sizing up the system. Anyone know what style this is ? Not sure why the trap is on the equalizer side ......

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  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,113
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    It looks to have a condensate pump guess they figured why pipe a equalizer to the return of the boiler just put a trap and send it to the condensate pump .Kinda lazy I guess ,I think you could do away with it and pipe a 2 1/2 equalizer put a hart loop tee and pump into that I always dislike pumping right into the boiler . Looks like that system could use a little help seeing your there means the only thing that separates them a great system is financial .great to see you posting Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    JohnNY
  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
    edited October 2019
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    Yeah it doesn't seem to be equalizing anything. It's a weird setup with the pump and receiver tank.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
    edited October 2019
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    I don't know where that second flue pipe is going (oil-fired water heater?), but it's not to code. Too long, wrong gauge.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
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    We're going to address all the code issues during the replacement.

    Any advice on the steam piping by the way ?
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    I'm not a steam guru. But one will be here shortly. Probably need a picture from much farther back to get a feel for what you have.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    JUGHNE
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,113
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    I think you have a master trap at the end of a dry return entering the tank ,who knows why but something must have been knuckle headed to get to where it is now . I doubt that system had a condensate receiver and pump originally . Looks like a little investigating will be required .who knows how long it’s been operating w the pump and such either way a real fortune cookie all wrap up waiting to brought back to simplicity.i know the wrench swings both ways and it’s quite hard to estimate replacement steam boilers when faced with that goop mullage of tragic comedy errors knowing the never did that before and this doesn’t heat anymore might be heard even though it always made noise and it didn’t heat anything lol . Gonna have to look at that one in detail does it still run if I would have crank it up and seen what it was all about it’s always helpful peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
    edited October 2019
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    This boiler is in the main house on an estate. The owners aren't home , so we're dealing with a caretaker who's been with the house for decades. He told us other than the boiler cracking , they never had an issue with the steam heat. Every rad and convector and this built in the wall setup has worked all the time he's been there.

    I'm of the opinion of swapping out the boiler for the proper sized one and not touching much on that header ..........

    Thanks for your thoughts clammy ! Good to hear from ya again.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,445
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    There are two F&Ts I see in those pictures. I don't think either one is needed, if you pipe the boiler correctly -- and neither is the condensate receiver and pump.

    Where are you located? We may know a good steam person in your area who could get eyes on and make suggestions at least. Or you could check "Find a Contractor" on this site.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
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    I'm located on Long Island. And I'm the one replacing the boiler. Eventually :p

    I've replaced hundreds of steamers in my career. But the vast majority were one pipe. This house is all 2 pipe. A mix of rads , built in wall convectors and a weird built in convector system with a grate at the floor and damper about 6 feet high.

    We recently replaced a grossly oversized steamer with a pump to a properly sized boiler minus the pump. Working flawlessly so far .........

    Thanks for the advice Jamie.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,901
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    That's a Dunham-Bush F&T trap with a Tunstall repair kit on it. It really doesn't belong there, some knucklehead thought the equalizer should discharge into the tank.

    See if you can get rid of the pump and tank.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    Ron Jr._3
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,629
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    Chances are the original boiler (not the one on site now) never had an equalizer. Many of the old steamers were so large they could get buy without one...just a check valve in the return. But all new boilers need an equalizer.

    But there is a problem. The equalizer is at the wrong end of the header. Flow towards the system goes to the right. Equalizer (really a header drain) goes to the left which is wrong

    I would pipe the new boiler with a new equalizer and new header. Leave the existing header drain trap and feed what is now the boiler header from the new header you install
  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
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    > @Steamhead said:
    > That's a Dunham-Bush F&T trap with a Tunstall repair kit on it. It really doesn't belong there, some knucklehead thought the equalizer should discharge into the tank.
    >
    > See if you can get rid of the pump and tank.

    Thanks Frank ! I kinda thought this was all botched when I first saw it. But just wanted to make sure it wasn't a specialty designed system from way back in the day. Whattdya think the reason was behind the tank ? Sorta like a resorvouir ?
  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
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    > @EBEBRATT-Ed said:
    > Chances are the original boiler (not the one on site now) never had an equalizer. Many of the old steamers were so large they could get buy without one...just a check valve in the return. But all new boilers need an equalizer.
    >
    > But there is a problem. The equalizer is at the wrong end of the header. Flow towards the system goes to the right. Equalizer (really a header drain) goes to the left which is wrong
    >
    > I would pipe the new boiler with a new equalizer and new header. Leave the existing header drain trap and feed what is now the boiler header from the new header you install

    Thanks for your input. I'm planning on piping the header like we normally do. Which is like ever dead man would want it :) If needed , I'd like that header trap downstream where the equalizer is supposed to be. Along with a true equalizer.
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,231
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    Ron Jr._3 said:


    Thanks Frank ! I kinda thought this was all botched when I first saw it. But just wanted to make sure it wasn't a specialty designed system from way back in the day. Whattdya think the reason was behind the tank ? Sorta like a resorvouir ?

    How's it going, Ron. I know what you mean. I still run into piping arrangements that seem wrong but I just want to check some diagrams before I officially condemn anything or cut it out and redo it. 2-pipe steam is like that. Lots of variations. Your client is in good hands. Take care.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
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    Hey John ! Ain't it weird that you come across perfectly piped steamers and they give you nothing but problems. And you see something like this and they say it ran fine for decades ?

    Thanks for the vote of confidence !