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  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
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    I'd think, but someone smarter than me may have proof otherwise, that the loss of converting mechanic power into electricity and then back to mechanical power is much less efficient than simply using mechanical power directly. Through a transmission of course.

    Hybrids get their efficiency from regenerative braking, and start/stop driving where an ICE vehicle would be idling at essentially 0% efficiency.

    A diesel VW with indirect injection from the 80s could achieve 45 MPG on bad days. With direct injection that should be around 20% better now, yet it isnt....
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,757
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    @ChrisJ yes, you didn't imagine it, although GM's marketing department sure wanted everyone to forget it! Here's some documentation that neither of us is crazy :smiley:

    https://www.wired.com/2010/10/the-chevrolet-volt-isnt-a-true-ev/
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,858
    edited August 2019
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    I'd think, but someone smarter than me may have proof otherwise, that the loss of converting mechanic power into electricity and then back to mechanical power is much less efficient than simply using mechanical power directly. Through a transmission of course.



    Hybrids get their efficiency from regenerative braking, and start/stop driving where an ICE vehicle would be idling at essentially 0% efficiency.



    A diesel VW with indirect injection from the 80s could achieve 45 MPG on bad days. With direct injection that should be around 20% better now, yet it isnt....


    How does an indirect injection Diesel work?
    I've never heard of such a thing.


    I Googled it and I'm surprised.
    No one has ever mentioned that before.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • The Steam Whisperer
    The Steam Whisperer Member Posts: 1,218
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    I bet one of the biggest reasons the small cars of the late 80s early 90's got so much better mileage than the current models is that they were dramatically lighter. Honda civics from that era were rated over 50 HIghway... the newer model can't even come close. The huge weight gain of all vehicles is a big problem. The 74 Dodge 3/4 ton maxivan i learned to drive on was 1200 lbs lighter than the later models. I remember reading about 15 years ago that the average weight of an American vehicle was about 500 lbs heavier than it was in 1972 or so ( probably due to SUV's and all the pickups that are running in the city). A 1973 two door Dodge Dart with a 340 and a 4 speed weighs in about 2800 lbs..... about the same weight or lighter than most of todays compact cars. Adding all the extras in todays cars is taking a toll along with what appears to be really bad design. Engineering today seems to be focused on in electronics and gadgets and not on fundamentally efficient design. This seems to be reflected in the incredible efficiencies we often see in pre WWII heating systems.
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
    ethicalpaul
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,352
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    I bet one of the biggest reasons the small cars of the late 80s early 90's got so much better mileage than the current models is that they were dramatically lighter. Honda civics from that era were rated over 50 HIghway... the newer model can't even come close. The huge weight gain of all vehicles is a big problem. The 74 Dodge 3/4 ton maxivan i learned to drive on was 1200 lbs lighter than the later models. I remember reading about 15 years ago that the average weight of an American vehicle was about 500 lbs heavier than it was in 1972 or so ( probably due to SUV's and all the pickups that are running in the city). A 1973 two door Dodge Dart with a 340 and a 4 speed weighs in about 2800 lbs..... about the same weight or lighter than most of todays compact cars. Adding all the extras in todays cars is taking a toll along with what appears to be really bad design. Engineering today seems to be focused on in electronics and gadgets and not on fundamentally efficient design. This seems to be reflected in the incredible efficiencies we often see in pre WWII heating systems.


    I have a Fiat 500, 6 speed manual, 1.4 engine, weighs 2300. I've never come close to 40 mpg? low 30's is more typical on the highway.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,858
    edited August 2019
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    I bet one of the biggest reasons the small cars of the late 80s early 90's got so much better mileage than the current models is that they were dramatically lighter. Honda civics from that era were rated over 50 HIghway... the newer model can't even come close. The huge weight gain of all vehicles is a big problem. The 74 Dodge 3/4 ton maxivan i learned to drive on was 1200 lbs lighter than the later models. I remember reading about 15 years ago that the average weight of an American vehicle was about 500 lbs heavier than it was in 1972 or so ( probably due to SUV's and all the pickups that are running in the city). A 1973 two door Dodge Dart with a 340 and a 4 speed weighs in about 2800 lbs..... about the same weight or lighter than most of todays compact cars. Adding all the extras in todays cars is taking a toll along with what appears to be really bad design. Engineering today seems to be focused on in electronics and gadgets and not on fundamentally efficient design. This seems to be reflected in the incredible efficiencies we often see in pre WWII heating systems.

    Don't get me started..............."On Top where it belongs. Uncovered as it should be."
    Although I guess "today" is relative.




    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • The Steam Whisperer
    The Steam Whisperer Member Posts: 1,218
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    My 93 Escort wagon 1.9 engine with 4 spd OD has bumped up near 50 mpg driving for hours at 62 mph, when some aero improvements are made to the vehicle. The engine control floats into lean burn ( just like the older Honda's) and mileage is terrific. Ford got caught doing that by the EPA ( NOX emission skyrocket) but never was forced to recall the millions of escorts out there like VW had to. The early 90's cars were still relatively light weight, but had the advantage of more advanced computer control. That's why its replacement is a Southern CA 98 Escort Wagon, but with a swapped in DOHC Zetec out of the ZX2 model. Quite fun about 2500 lbs but about 140 to 150 HP.
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
    ethicalpaul
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,858
    edited August 2019
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    My 93 Escort wagon 1.9 engine with 4 spd OD has bumped up near 50 mpg driving for hours at 62 mph, when some aero improvements are made to the vehicle. The engine control floats into lean burn ( just like the older Honda's) and mileage is terrific. Ford got caught doing that by the EPA ( NOX emission skyrocket) but never was forced to recall the millions of escorts out there like VW had to. The early 90's cars were still relatively light weight, but had the advantage of more advanced computer control. That's why its replacement is a Southern CA 98 Escort Wagon, but with a swapped in DOHC Zetec out of the ZX2 model. Quite fun about 2500 lbs but about 140 to 150 HP.

    One of the big reasons modern cars are heavier is they beefed up the structure around the passengers.

    You wouldn't want to compare crash tests between your car and a 2019, I promise.

    Even a 10 year old car or SUV is drastically different.

    In 2012 my almost new sub compact car was hit by a 2004 midsize in front of our house and the damage to the 2004 was unreal. But my doors still opened and closed like normal.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
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    Yes, most old cars were dramatically lighter than they are today.

    My 1959 Ford Galaxie complete with all iron (accept the carburetor) V8 352cubic inches, weighs in at 3480 pounds. The thing is 17 feet 4 inches long!

    It's just a frame and sheetmetal with a big engine. Really nothing else. No safety regulations to meet, even the chrome bumpers are only 10gauge (1/8") thick. People think old "American Iron" cars were immensely heavy just because they were huge!
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    ChrisJ