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Viessmann Vitodens HX Recall

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Paul Pollets
Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656
WB2HB Vitodens 200 and Cabinet Models-222F models are affected. See link for details and protocols:

https://www.viessmann-us.com/en/services/vitodens-2xx-recall.html

Comments

  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,550
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    Sorry to see this.. Stopped installing Them years ago, Just goes to show you that nobody is Perfect,Not even Viessmann...Time to change the Light bulb display in the Viessmann Factory tour.
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656
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    I'm wondering how many boilers are affected in the recall? At least they offer to pay the contractor for the inconvenience.
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,550
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    1000 bucks for the Change out ? How about the Loss in confidence in this product from the Customers.
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656
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    Other manufacturer's have had similar recall issues and people still buy their boilers. It's as much how it's handled that is important.
    STEVEusaPATinmanSolid_Fuel_Mandelta T
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,550
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    Our local Distributor/Rep. did not even know about this,Do you think they should have notified us about this first ?...Not the Social network..
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,550
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    To answer your question on how many Units ...4300 units between US and Canada.
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    Ouch! I've got seven that qualify.

    Thanks for the heads-up, Paul. At least I'm one step ahead of my customers.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
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    $1000.00 is $1000.00 more than I remember any other manufacturer paying.
    Steve Minnich
    Solid_Fuel_ManZmandelta T
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,704
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    I’m still stumped on the wording “voluntary recall”. Voluntary and Recall in the same sentence? I like Viessmann, have Viessmann in my home, my office/work, couple hundred out in the field
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • PerryHolzman
    PerryHolzman Member Posts: 234
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    I would also like to point out the timing of this recall. In the spring so you have all summer and early fall to deal with the installed units. Things could be much more difficult (especially customer relations) if announced in the fall or during the winter (not to mention a failure during the winter).

    @GW It's voluntary because no regulatory agency has forced their hand at this stage. I actually give Viessmann a lot of credit for this - and the fact that they will pay the heating contractors a reasonable amount to replace the heat exchangers.

    Overall, this is likely at least a $750,000 direct cost to Viessman recall - and may be more than $1 Million.

    Have a great day,

    Perry
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,271
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    I would also like to point out the timing of this recall. In the spring so you have all summer and early fall to deal with the installed units. Things could be much more difficult (especially customer relations) if announced in the fall or during the winter (not to mention a failure during the winter).

    @GW It's voluntary because no regulatory agency has forced their hand at this stage. I actually give Viessmann a lot of credit for this - and the fact that they will pay the heating contractors a reasonable amount to replace the heat exchangers.

    Overall, this is likely at least a $750,000 direct cost to Viessman recall - and may be more than $1 Million.

    Have a great day,

    Perry

    About the cost of one of the bobsleds they sponsor :)
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    GWSolid_Fuel_Man
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,060
    edited April 2019
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    Oh, please!

    Would you like it better if they let their heat exchangers (HX's) fail without a voluntary recall. Or if they gave you the replacement HX with a $250 labor reimbursement instead of $1,000?

    My question is, why are these HX failing? Is the metal too thin? Was there a mistake with the alloy?
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    Tinman
  • PerryHolzman
    PerryHolzman Member Posts: 234
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    Oh, please!

    My question is, why are these HX failing? Is the metal too thin? Was there a mistake with the alloy?

    While there are several things that can go wrong.... something I have often seen happen in modern power plant heat exchangers could easily have happened.

    There is actually a small selection of alloys that really work well from a corrosion resistance standpoint in a condensing boiler application. A key feature of all of them is that they need to be chemically treated (pickled) to bring out their best corrosion resistance properties.

    Pickling used to be done automatically to a lot of alloys because the companies producing them wanted to produce the best alloy possible.

    However, with the advent of all the regulations many of the pickling chemicals now require special controls and procedures, and pickling is an expensive process.

    Many a time some young engineer figured they could save money by ordering the same alloy... without the pickling. The metal always fails prematurely compared to the old alloys (which may never have chemically corroded at all in the same service).

    I note another problem is that any welding done to a pickled alloy needs to be appropriately cleaned and treated as well... or the weld and the weld affected zone fails.

    Also, in some cases they change the production process which affect alloy grain formation and corrosion resistance properties.

    Now I don't know that the above is the situation with the newer Vitodens HXs. I've just seen that situation in power plants and other large industrial plants over and over...

    Have a great day,
    CanuckerSolid_Fuel_ManAlan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • solsean
    solsean Member Posts: 18
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    If the 100's and 200's are the same HTX why is the 100 not included?
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
    edited April 2019
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    If manufacturers of aluminum block HXs offered that kind of jack, we'd all be in a better spot.
    Steve Minnich
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656
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    Viessmann does not have the replacement HX kits ready to go or a plan for distribution as of today (4/29). Usually the East coast gets it first. I thought I'd be calling the affected customers to advise, but will hold off until the manufacturer has their plan in place. Since this is a "voluntary recall" I don't want to panic the customers or be bombarded with requests for parts which might not be available immediately.
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,060
    edited April 2019
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    I've let 6 of 7 of my customers know and they've been pretty cool with it. The seventh customer is very tense and this would set him off.

    I've also told them all to install a CO detector close to the boiler to play it safe.

    Thanks for the update, Paul.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,704
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    Silly me, I’m a little slow. The word “Voluntary” confused me. Viessmann “voluntarily” brought the recall to the public, but the act of repair isn’t voluntary, I think I got it now
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656
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    Gary, it sounds like you're upset to have to deal with a recall. Is being paid to do so offensive?
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,704
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    Just don’t care for the phrase, that’s all. I’ll keep marching
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    DZoro
  • GeneGross
    GeneGross Member Posts: 2
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    Paul thank you for posting this even though it may have been a bit premature. I (a wholesaler) have worked through a couple of these so far would like to share a few points of interest on this recall compared to other manufacturers.

    The first is really simple. This was done BEFORE a problem existed.

    Next, contractors can actually get their honest pay from it. I did not believe this at first.

    Finally, kind of a stretch here I know..... It can be a great learning opportunity for new techs. You can turn this change out into a fully paid day of instruction.

    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656
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    I agree, GeneGross. While the instructions were pretty specific, 3 photos are required: the old HX and boiler tag; the replacement HX and boiler tag; a pic of the original boiler tag cut in 1/2.
  • Joe Mattiello
    Joe Mattiello Member Posts: 707
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    I’m a customer and love my boiler because of the high efficiency, low monthly gas bills.
    My house stays at 72F and comfortable.
    My contractor contacted me about the recall sent his service man to do the change out, which took about an hour. I’m thinking he may be making some money, and has a loyal installing contractor, he should.
    I made the right choice
    Joe Mattiello
    N. E. Regional Manger, Commercial Products
    Taco Comfort Solutions