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No Zone Valves in Boiler

dooododoo
dooododoo Member Posts: 25
I have a boiler with 7 pairs of return and supply zone lines. I do not have zone valves on them. If I wanted to control the zones, is it possible for me to manually adjust the return line valves by turning them off halfway for example?

This boiler supplies heat for 2 apartment units, one on the same first floor as the boiler (you can see the apt door on the left) and then a 2nd apt unit on the 2nd floor.

I want to increase the heating for the 1st floor because the windows are drafty and the cold from the ground makes that apt unit cold compared to the 2nd floor.

Is my best solution to get zone valves installed? If so would I need to get 7 zone valves? Rough ball park figure for installation cost, if possible?

Or is there another solution to supply more heat to the first floor apt?

Comments

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,076
    You MAY have some success throttling the ball valves, but zone valves would be the sure route. It may be possible to combine some of the loops so that you don’t need 7 zone valves.

    Pricing is against site rules.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 2,827
    Yes you could use those globe valves as a balancing valve much better then a ball valve . Are those 1/2 or 3/8 I ve run into those type of systems set up as your is they all worked 1000 times better w the pump on the supply and balancing valves on returns .i seethem as the original manifold feed system and as a single zone they where pretty easy to balance them out .that boiler looks as old as the piping . I wouldn’t bother trying to micro zone it I would image there running the aquastat north of 180 at least on the one I have encountered and they where all convector in cabinets and 1 lone baseboard system but it still worked great same supply temp at every convector beautiful peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    dooododoo
  • HotanCool
    HotanCool Member Posts: 54
    So as of now, only 1 thermostat? If 2,then that's just as funky as having only 1! And 2 apartments,yet 7 supplies & returns?
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,973
    Looks like you have globe or gate valves in the back. Globes could be throttled, not so much for the gate valves.
    What type of emitters do you have in the apartments. Maybe you can do something with them.
    I don't see how zone valves are going to help you unless you control the thermostats. TRV's may do the trick.
    steve
    dooododoo
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,417
    Zone valves are your best bet here. Throttling valves will not get you the results that a thermostat with zone valves will at each conditioned space. ( Or you can use circulators instead of zone valves. )
    You can also use Thermostatic Radiator Valves ( TRV's ) directly at the radiators as a option as @STEVEusaPA mentions above.
    You can also set the system up as two zones. One on the second floor, the other on the first floor. That will take some repiping near your boiler.

    As for pricing. We do not discuss pricing here.

    Side note: Is that a old Repco boiler that I see in the picture? I have replaced many of a Repco boiler due to the combustion chamber or heat exchanger failing.
    It's nice to see this one hanging in there.
    dooododoo
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,209
    It depends on where those circuits go. 7 zone valves would require 7 thermostats and related wiring. If you can determine where the loops go, combine them with two zone valves and two thermostats.
    A problem could be if one circuit feeds heat emitters in two different units, of course.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Tinman
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,860
    Tha manifolds are OK. For ease of service and ascetics alone, I would do zone valves for each loop, wired for 2 zones with a dedicated ZVC zone board for each zone. Assuming, say 4 loops hit the 1st floor and 3 the second without mingling.
    I would also replace the valves on the return with ball valves and the purge drain valve.
    Is there another valve on the vertical return somewhere to purge the loops?

    Oil fired Repco boilers without the stone chamber are famous for burning through the back of the target wall therefore the wall behind it and burning many homes down on Long Island. I'm not positive but I think they went in a lot of Levitt homes in Suffolk county.
    @DanHolohan might know some history on that. I hear he's out of retirement.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,179
    @HVACNUT Can't say for certain, but they probably did. They were a popular (cheap) choice at the time.
    Retired and loving it.
  • HotanCool
    HotanCool Member Posts: 54
    Maybe some of you more experienced guys can enlighten me? I read as Boiler heats 2 different apartments. I see 7 zones as stated and only 1 circulator and 1 boiler control. So how can you control the FHW from flowing to 1 or more occupied space that's satisfied,if the other occupied(apartment)space,calls for heat? And what type of piping system is this? 2 pipe? Venturi? I don't understand how many stats are involved,or how the heat is controlled to each occupied space,without over heating. The picture is not worth 1,000 words. Any One?
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,860
    edited April 2019
    @HotanCool
    There's currently one zone with seven loops serving two apartments. They might be homeruns. The OP wants to throttle the loops to distribute more heat to the first floor apartment. Obviously that's not the best solution.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,417
    HotanCool said:

    Maybe some of you more experienced guys can enlighten me? I read as Boiler heats 2 different apartments. I see 7 zones as stated and only 1 circulator and 1 boiler control. So how can you control the FHW from flowing to 1 or more occupied space that's satisfied,if the other occupied(apartment)space,calls for heat? And what type of piping system is this? 2 pipe? Venturi? I don't understand how many stats are involved,or how the heat is controlled to each occupied space,without over heating. The picture is not worth 1,000 words. Any One?

    @HotanCool

    You really can't control it. The OP asked if he can manually control it with what he has.
    Also. There are not 7 zones but 7 supply lines. If the OP wanted to control it, they would add controls like 7 t-stats, 7 circs. or zone valves or trv's as mentioned in some of the responses above.
    Basically the system just runs wild. When there is a call for heat the entire building is heated. The OP asked if they can use there current set up as if they are zones, by closing or partially closing the pictured valves. They can't.
    As to what type of piping system this is was not determined during the conversations.
    But whether it is continuous loop, veturi etc. the system will not do what the OP wants unless they decide to install some of the suggestions offered.

    Hope this explanation helps.

    HotanCool
  • HotanCool
    HotanCool Member Posts: 54
    Intplm. said:

    HotanCool said:

    Maybe some of you more experienced guys can enlighten me? I read as Boiler heats 2 different apartments. I see 7 zones as stated and only 1 circulator and 1 boiler control. So how can you control the FHW from flowing to 1 or more occupied space that's satisfied,if the other occupied(apartment)space,calls for heat? And what type of piping system is this? 2 pipe? Venturi? I don't understand how many stats are involved,or how the heat is controlled to each occupied space,without over heating. The picture is not worth 1,000 words. Any One?

    @HotanCool

    You really can't control it. The OP asked if he can manually control it with what he has.
    Also. There are not 7 zones but 7 supply lines. If the OP wanted to control it, they would add controls like 7 t-stats, 7 circs. or zone valves or trv's as mentioned in some of the responses above.
    Basically the system just runs wild. When there is a call for heat the entire building is heated. The OP asked if they can use there current set up as if they are zones, by closing or partially closing the pictured valves. They can't.
    As to what type of piping system this is was not determined during the conversations.
    But whether it is continuous loop, veturi etc. the system will not do what the OP wants unless they decide to install some of the suggestions offered.

    Hope this explanation helps.

    That's kinda what I thought. Just wanted to make sure of what I was seeing.Conclusion :There are No easy(cheap) solutions here.
    Intplm.
  • LuckyDog
    LuckyDog Member Posts: 22
    Is it just me, or is there a second boiler in the picture no one has talked about?

    could it be that it is one boiler for each apartment?
    Maybe someone already throttled down the 7 lines to the first apartment?

    Just guessing......
    HomeOwner



    Building a house in NH
  • dooododoo
    dooododoo Member Posts: 25
    edited October 2019
    2nd boiler is for 3rd floor unit.

    Building has a total of 3 floors and 3 units. (One unit in each floor. They call it a 3-flat here in chicago.)

    There are 2 boilers in the building. The boiler on the left serves the 1st and 2nd floor units. The boiler on the right serves the 3rd floor unit.
    LuckyDog said:

    Is it just me, or is there a second boiler in the picture no one has talked about?

    could it be that it is one boiler for each apartment?
    Maybe someone already throttled down the 7 lines to the first apartment?

    Just guessing......

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,860
    Well? Did you zone the first and second floors? I mean, you've had over 6 months since your first post. Show us the "After" pic.
  • John Ruhnke
    John Ruhnke Member Posts: 882
    If those are home runs you could put TRV's on each radiator or baseboard up in the room and balance the heat that way with out wiring thermostats.
    I am the walking Deadman
    Hydronics Designer
    Hydronics is the most comfortable and energy efficient HVAC system.