Wow, Have you ever seen this warning for a gas valve?

RayWohlfarth

I was reading the installation instructions for a Honeywell V48 gas valve because I dont have a life. I came across this: Note: Per industry standards, a conduit seal or a cable type what is sealed is required to be installed in a device that can result in flammable gas or flammable liquid flow through a conduit or cable to an electrical ignition source in the event of a seal leakage, or diphragm leak.
If you ignore the bad writing, this scared the tar outta me. Am I reading this right? Gas can travel through the conduit back to the burner panel where it can be ignited? What industry standard is it referencing?

The Steam Whisperer

I sure could see that happening. Chicago has been rebuilding its completely decrepit water and natural gas piping. About a block and a half away the water crews hit a gas main. The gas then apparently traveled underground and got into a home ( either through the sewers or the old stone foundation). As the police and fire department were going house to house to evacuate the area...BOOOMMM. Fortunately, the police and firemen were still about 3 homes away, so they weren't hurt. Gas will travel whatever way it can, so it could certainly travel up a conduit and go boom.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@RayWohlfarth

Think their covering their ****. How many hundreds of thousand of those valves and actuators are installed?

We have all replaced the actuators by taking them off the valve body and no leaks with the actuator off.

I am a electrician and have seen some explosion proof equipment. Those actuators are not explosion proof.

I suppose we can start installing sealing fittings on the actuators but what good will it do? Any gas inside the actuator is going to leak out around the cover.

Motors and equipment that are designed explosion proof are wired with 1 thing. Threaded steel conduit and the equipment is totally sealed

RayWohlfarth

@The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro) I have heard about the gas travleing along there and never thought it would do it on these valves. These valves have the bleed fitting and I just assumed the gas leak would go there
@EBEBRATT-Ed Everyone is covering their butts now I thought any leaks would go through the leak fitting.

ChrisJ

I honestly couldn't figure out what they were talking about until I read what you put.

If it's so important, you would think they would be clear and accurate.

RayWohlfarth

@ChrisJ I had to reread it several times myself. They must have used the low bid interpretor Hoping I spelled that right

Intplm.

@RayWohlfarth That seems as if it was translated to english from some other language.

Bob Harper

What they are talking about is the propensity for this valve to blow its seals and diaphragm where the fugitive gas could enter an unsealed cable or conduit to be conducted to a point of ignition remotely. In other words, wire the solenoid using a cable gland.
I think this technical writer was canned from Honeywell and was picked up by the DOE or OSHA. Seriously, this is rubberstamp language from the ANSI std. Their stds. have boiler plate warning phrases required for listing that must be copied verbatim, pitch and font.
Automatic Valves for Gas Appliances, ANSI Z21.21 – CSA 6.5 and Combination Gas Controls for Gas Appliances, ANSI Z21.78 – CSA 6.20 call for a maximum leakage of 200 CM3/ hr. at max. leakage test pressure (3/4 psi typically) through the seals of the valve and 235 cc/hr. through the valve operator to the burner at 3/4 psi.
ANSI Z21.80 allows certain medium pressure regulators to use vent limiters to discharge a max. of 2.5 cu.ft./hr where line pressure <2 psi and discharge is into a ventilated, accessible space. Otherwise, must pipe vent line to atmosphere.

Zman

Intplm. said:

@RayWohlfarth That seems as if it was translated to english from some other language.

I suspect it went through several other languages before English.

I guess if and electrical conduit was sealed to the gas valve, a leak in the gas valve could send gas through the conduit to a control relay and cause an explosion.
Never seen one set up that way....

RayWohlfarth

@Intplm. Are there no proof readers? LOL
Bob Harper was the typo in the ansi standard?
@Zman I have never seen one of the valves with a conduit seal or explosion proof fitting

Zman

I did a 120 to 240 conversion on some shop equipment. The translated instructions said to "tape" certain wires. It turned out you were supposed to tie them together. I was a bit nervous powering it up.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@RayWohlfarth

In my first post I ws thinking of a different valve like the big V055? with the removeable actuator.

This thing is just a solenoid valve in a diaphram valve body. looking in the internals there is a wiring splice inside the compartment where the conduit terminates. No way this is XP wiring or can be made xp wiring.

No way that thing can leak gas into wiring compartment unless you had an explosion in the gas pipe.

Wouldn't be the first time LOL

I went to a Honeywell seminar in Boston way back when the R47795 ? burner control came out. Probably40 years ago

So we did some class room stuff and then they had some control boards made up with controls and jumpers to wire up and we had to wire it an make it work.

So I wired it and it didn't work so I jumped something out and the control blew off the board

The instructor came over. What did you do?

Honeywell"s wiring diagram was wrong

ChrisJ

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

@RayWohlfarth

In my first post I ws thinking of a different valve like the big V055? with the removeable actuator.

This thing is just a solenoid valve in a diaphram valve body. looking in the internals there is a wiring splice inside the compartment where the conduit terminates. No way this is XP wiring or can be made xp wiring.

No way that thing can leak gas into wiring compartment unless you had an explosion in the gas pipe.

Wouldn't be the first time LOL

I went to a Honeywell seminar in Boston way back when the R47795 ? burner control came out. Probably40 years ago

So we did some class room stuff and then they had some control boards made up with controls and jumpers to wire up and we had to wire it an make it work.

So I wired it and it didn't work so I jumped something out and the control blew off the board

The instructor came over. What did you do?

Honeywell"s wiring diagram was wrong

Sure it was.

Solid_Fuel_Man

Moneywell..... we do a lot of work for them.

RayWohlfarth

@Zman Tape the wires? Scary
@EBEBRATT-Ed Maybe its smart gas? LOL Like the Kennedy bullet?
@ChrisJ Cant believe a wiring diagram is wrong
Moneywell? LOL

ChrisJ

RayWohlfarth said:

@Zman Tape the wires? Scary
@EBEBRATT-Ed Maybe its smart gas? LOL Like the Kennedy bullet?
@ChrisJ Cant believe a wiring diagram is wrong
Moneywell? LOL

@RayWohlfarth I was making a joke, nothing more.

I spent most of my life working in electronics and now I work in a machine shop. I've read more drawings, schematics, prints etc than I care to think about.

The wiring schematic to my outdoor condenser is flat out wrong to the point I still haven't decided if it was a mistake or intentional.

RayWohlfarth

@ChrisJ I got it I was being sarcastic. I spent 2 days on a boiler startup recently and traced all the wiring back to verify it was wired properly and it was wired accoring to the diagragm After that I had to change the wiring so it would work and the manufacturer had the guts to ask me to send him the changes so he could change his diagragms and didnt want to pay me for the time

ChrisJ

RayWohlfarth said:

@ChrisJ I got it I was being sarcastic. I spent 2 days on a boiler startup recently and traced all the wiring back to verify it was wired properly and it was wired accoring to the diagragm After that I had to change the wiring so it would work and the manufacturer had the guts to ask me to send him the changes so he could change his diagragms and didnt want to pay me for the time

I think it'd be fair to trade 8 hours labor for that information. No? Otherwise he can go scratch.

RayWohlfarth

@ChrisJ Thats what I said LOL