Comments on this steam header?

Harvey Ramer

I have never seen one piped like this. But then again, I don't get work on steam much. What can you tell me about it?

System is single pipe steam with perimeter mains and wet returns.


s

Mike_Sheppard

I have seen a lot of funky piped headers. But that one might take the cake. Lol

SeanBeans

Maybe the original boiler had 3 risers

gerry gill

now thats interesting..i always wonder how come if i did that it wouldn't work but it somehow 'works' for others

JUGHNE

Are the 2 mains and take off all counterflow piping?

EBEBRATT-Ed

One of them looks counter flow for sure and has the drip.

In the old days the boilers and the entire system was oversized.

Even if the piping is wrong the radiators run the system. If the radiation can't condense to 100% of there EDR (and they won't if their are oversized) the "wrong" piping becomes ok because it carries a smaller load.

That's why wrong piping sometimes works. Especially with an old oversized boiler

JUGHNE

I wonder if the left and right were "steam/drips" and the center one was for the dry steam.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@JUGHNE
good point

Harvey Ramer

None of these mains are counterflow. There are 3 of them. 2 of them run around the perimeter of the main house and tie together in a single wet return, below the water line. They are tied together above the waterline with a 3/4" pipe and a vent in the center for both mains.
The other main is smaller, with its own vent and wet return.

The boiler is running way to long and at way to high pressure. Vents whistling Dixie and the main vents belching steam. Boiler water is surging like crazy and almost certainly sending water up into the mains. Perhaps pushing it back up the wet returns some as well. Water level drops about an inch or so on the sight glass when the system starts steaming.

I believe the piping and venting is still original from the coal days.

Boiler is an FR-462 and it had a 2.2 (I believe) gph x 70B nozzle. Replaced it with the specced 4gphx 80b nozzle and got the high co levels down and the combustion optimized.

My plan moving forward is to install a vaporstat and low pressure guage and get the boiler running on a reasonable pressure.
Check the water chemistry.
Individually vent the 3 mains, with a 40 second target for each main.

If I get desirable results, the homeowner may let me move on to the risers and rads and get that venting optimized.

They burn an awful amount of oil!

Mike_Sheppard

Good plan. I have a customer with perimeter mains as well. At the end they each have a drip that goes to the wet return. But at some point in time a knucklehead re-piped and tied them together above the water line. Now the steam from the shorter main gets into the longer main and closes its air vent before it finishes venting. Doesn’t help that they’re both vented with a single Hoffman 75... the longer one is about 350 feet.

Fred

No equalizer either. Seems like as much steam would recirculate through those pipes as might get out into the actual mains. The small main on the end of that header is reduced on the horizontal. Good thing that the condensate can drip back. Too bad it has to drip back into the riser out of the boiler. This took a lot of thought!

Danny Scully

That’s the original boiler @Harvey Ramer, correct?

Harvey Ramer

> @Danny Scully said:
> That’s the original boiler @Harvey Ramer, correct?

No, it's not. The original would have been coal.

Danny Scully

So did they tighten that boiler to connect it to the header or is there a union I’m missing?

Harvey Ramer

Excellent point. I never thought about that nor have I looked under the insulation. I don't believe there is a union there though.
They may have welded to the header.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Harvey Ramer
Harvey you mentioned 2 of the mains run around the perimeter and tie together with one vent on the 3/4 tie in pipe above the water line

This will cause an issue. One main is bound to stem quicker than the other. The first one that steams to the end closes the vent leaving the other main air locked

Harvey Ramer

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

@Harvey Ramer
Harvey you mentioned 2 of the mains run around the perimeter and tie together with one vent on the 3/4 tie in pipe above the water line

This will cause an issue. One main is bound to stem quicker than the other. The first one that steams to the end closes the vent leaving the other main air locked

Agreed. My plan is to remove the crossover pipe and vent each header individually. One header gets a big mouth, one a gorton #2 and the smallest one a gorton#1.

The way it currently operates, we have radiators hot the whole way across on the smaller main before the steam ever makes it to the main vent on the larger mains. The thermostat is on the side of the house that heats up first, so the other side of the house is like a giant walk in refrigerator with tasteful decor.

ChrisJ