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Oil burner shuts down, relay light flashes, only runs ~12 hours after restart.

Rob94hawk
Rob94hawk Member Posts: 6
I have a Carlin oil burner & a Peerless boiler. Recently, and pretty much every day, the burner likes to not go on and the Becket relay (part #7505A) red light flashes. This started after a freezing night a week ago when it hit Zero degrees and apparently the fuel gelled up and clogged the fuel line. I have a new 275 gal outside tank that is only a year and a half old. In a panic I called a local service. Before he showed up I was able to reset the burner and get it going. The guy showed up and he checked out my burner and agreed it was the fuel line but also told me that I had a faulty firomatic valve and it needed to be replaced. So they did that as well as a tune up. That was Monday 3/4/19. Since then the burner is still shutting itself off for unknown reasons. A few different guys from the company I hired have been back and forth over the past couple of days and they keep blaming it on the fuel line but they keep telling me the fuel line is flowing fine. They also think it could be the line going into the tank and it might be too far down. But I've never had a problem up until now even with last year's cold weather. These guys keep focusing on the fuel line and nothing else I don't know where to go from here. What doesn't make sense is when I reset the burner it runs just fine, then maybe 12 hours later it turns off and won't turn back on. The Peerless is only 2.5 years old as well. I appreciate the help and if you need additional pics I'll post them. Thank you!

Comments

  • Rob94hawk
    Rob94hawk Member Posts: 6
    I'm also located in Smithtown, NY.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,594
    Not that this is the issue but is the burner only 2.5 years old? If so there should be an oil delay valve at the fuel pump and the primary should be a 7505B, not "A". Unless they reprogrammed it for pre purge and didn't replace the model sticker.
    Does the burner fire immediately? No delay, or is there a 5,10,30 second pre purge before ignition?
    Determining if theres a problem with the oil line could have been made certain with pressure and vacuum gauges.
    I agree the sole focus should not have been the oil line. That's why on call backs I go to, I sometimes dont even check the history from the previous visits so I can start fresh with an open mind.
    The tune up was done. Did they do combustion and smoke tests and leave a copy of the results on site?
    Proper draft? I believe the WBV wants -.02 over fire, -.04, -.05 breach.
    The problem could very well be the oil line but everything must be checked and tested.
    It's time to speak to the Service Manager. Even if someone has to bother him at home on a Saturday. Ask to speak to him or her directly. Its unacceptable to have multiple techs there and it's still not resolved.
    And at absolutely no cost to you whatsoever.
  • Rob94hawk
    Rob94hawk Member Posts: 6
    Yes the burner fires up immediately. As a matter of fact I just reset it 20 minutes ago and it ran the entire time. Shut down for 2 minutes, then restarted on it's own.
    I don't know if they ever did a combustion, smoke, & draft check.
    I don't have much faith in these young guys so I'm looking into other options.
    Also one other thing that may be significant that I forgot to add, these shutdowns have been happening even since I got a delivery from Romeo fuel. Bad fuel possibly? I did add 16oz of Super Heat additive.
    Here are a few more pics. Probably won't help but the last one should give you a laugh. We got turned down for a contract because the guy had no way of getting to the rear of the furnace.


  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,689
    edited March 2019
    Yeah whoever installed it deserves a kick where the sun doesn't shine. Quite honestly, if you called me I would get you running, but I wouldn't come back unless it was to re-pipe the boiler so further maintenance could be properly performed.
    The 4 horizontal pipes in front of the boiler could've all went up and over, or behind the boiler, hugging/strapped to the wall.

    Is the tank/level of the oil below the fuel pump? Did they bother to change the pump strainer?
    Either way I would check for a vacuum leak and power purge the fuel unit.
    Then I would do a full combustion test-draft/smoke/combustion.

    What's with the wee-wee pad and the oil dry? That's how they left it?

    steve
  • Rob94hawk
    Rob94hawk Member Posts: 6
    edited March 2019
    It's a high ranch and the new tank is on pre cast slabs behind the left wall outside so the tank is sitting above the pump.
    I have no itemized list of what they did unfortunately. I do know they bled the line and changed the filter.
    Swezey wanted me to make an access door on the right side in the back since it leads to the garage. I think it's totally possible.
    And yes that is how they left it. With the weewee pad on the floor.
    Since I've reset it it's been running solid for almost 2 hours. But this is the norm. It'll either not going on at 4am when the thermostat drops or when someone is taking a long shower and the 50 gal tank is drained of hot water.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,689
    edited March 2019
    I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the fuel, otherwise it probably wouldn't run at all.
    When you got your new tank, did they pump the old fuel into the new tank?
    Why is it your job to make an access door?
    You'd be doing everyone a favor if you had an actual professional come in and re-pipe the boiler.

    If you regularly get down to 0°, a Tiger Loop (to take advantage of the full suction power of the pump), oil line heater (installed at the nozzle line for better combustion), and wrapping the oil line with heat tape and turn on when you are below 30° (to keep the line from freezing) when you get below freezing are things that will help. So will an using an additive to lower the pour point (used on every delivery) and disperse any moisture.
    A 25% Kero mix would also work, but probably the most expensive option.
    Better would be to put the oil tank in the garage. I'm assuming you have no basement.
    steve
  • Rob94hawk
    Rob94hawk Member Posts: 6
    No old oil was put in that tank a year and a half ago. The old buried tank was excavated out of the ground since it leaked.
    I have heat tape on the outside. I put it there yesterday.
    If I ever work the bugs out of this burner I'll follow your advise and have those lines rerouted.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,689
    I see evidence of the underground with the abandoned, uncapped oil line under the boiler (on the right).
    I think your initial problem was frozen oil. I think extremely cold oil led to poor combustion. I think not having the boiler properly cleaned, bled, and combustion set properly is the new problem.
    steve
    Rob94hawkSuperTech
  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,362
    I can't tell from the pictures, but if it has an oil solenoid valve on the fuel pump, then that is where I would look. I have had quite a few of them do the same scenario you have. The burner starts and runs fine, then shuts off. By the time you notice it, the solenoid has cooled down, and works again. I would also check the fuel pump coupler to see if it might be on the edge of slipping. If the coupler looks good, I would probably replace the fuel solenoid and see if that clears up the problem.
    Rick
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 1,792
    A Beckett primary control on a Carlin burner? That's supposed to be 2.5 years old?

    I have the same boiler at my house. It came with the Beckett AFG burner. If you have problems with the oil line freezing a Tiger Loop Ultra would be a huge help. It will continuously keep a supply of warm oil at the boiler due to the volume of oil it contains. The 10 micron oil filter will provide the best possible oil filtration. And it could be a possibility that you are pulling a high vacuum on the oil line and if some of the flare connections aren't perfect it will suck air in cause the burner to lock out. The tiger loop removes all the air in the oil line and prevents nuisance lockouts.

    They should correct the boiler piping. That's not the kind of work a true professional performs. You have to be able to open the combustion chamber door for a proper cleaning. You will never have a completely clean and efficient boiler with that setup.
    STEVEusaPA
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,010
    I feel bad that a supposed "professional" would install a job like that.

    @SuperTech

    Why be surprised the control was changed? Most of these "service technicians" all they are are parts changers LOL

    Dam shame
    SuperTech
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,010
    Besides, what else are you supposed to do when the burner locks out.....change the control of course!!!!!!!!!!
    SuperTech
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,898

    I feel bad that a supposed "professional" would install a job like that.

    Once money changes hands then there "Professionals"

    Qualified Professionals is a different story!
    STEVEusaPA
  • jba2000
    jba2000 Member Posts: 1
    Have you checked the screen in the pump?
  • heatandair
    heatandair Member Posts: 1
    Have the cad cell eye checked anything over 1500 ohms will cause intermittent problems
  • Rob94hawk
    Rob94hawk Member Posts: 6
    So I had another company come and he not only did all the tests, smoke, draft, combustion, he got me involved!

    First, as suspected, the fuel line was fine. Although he didn't like the fact that there were two firomatic valves. He didn't think it was necessary to have one at the outside tank. He deemed it an unnecessary restriction and the only one needed was at the pump. But we left it alone.

    He wen't through a lot so bear with me if I don't remember all the terminology and values.

    Nozzle was the right size. But right off the bat he showed me that the flame was short and not longer. Made me get down and look for myself. He said too much air was getting in, hence the blowouts. He dialed down the air and I saw that the flame was much longer.

    Up next was the draft test into the flame. Showed me on the ball manometer that it was 1. Then the exhaust draft which was 3.
    The smoke test was Zero.

    I mentioned the Tiger Loop and he thought it was a good idea. But I'll save that till I know for sure everything he did today fixed the shutoff problem. That and rerouting the pipes.
    STEVEusaPACLamb
  • Jellis
    Jellis Member Posts: 228
    Sounds like he got you down the right path.
    Leave the fire-o-matic on the tank, it is a protection device and i as far as i know required by code everywhere.