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Fined 650 dollars because of PHCC scam

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mikedo
mikedo Member Posts: 174
I live in connecticut and hold a p1 and s1. I missed going to the continuing education class the PHCC pushed through the state legislature when almost half of the licensed plumbers signed a petition saying we didn't want it. I think the PHCC had 150 members at the time in connecticut. They flew in people from all over the country to speak on behalf of the connecticut plumbers. Then funny right after they got it through one of their executives opened code inc to take the money of the hard working real plumbers. just my opinion but i think the only thing the PHCC is good at is trying to promote themselves. If they wanted to do any good they would go after all the unlicensed and uninsured people taking our jobs away. So i guess I'm stuck paying a 650 fine from the state because I'm just a plumber and according to the PHCC not smart enough to know the codes without paying some to teach me things i already know

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  • Leon82
    Leon82 Member Posts: 684
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    This state is doomed and is going to get worse. The 5 major cities control the vote and they voted for more taxes tolls and regulations
    GBart
  • mikedo
    mikedo Member Posts: 174
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    as i like to say have you ever been to motor vehicle department in ct thats how the town and state government is run. and usa hit 22 trillion in debt today. not counting the 100 trillion in unfunded liabilitys
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
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    Leon82 said:

    This state is doomed and is going to get worse. The 5 major cities control the vote and they voted for more taxes tolls and regulations

    That is total BS, if you have been paying attention CAREFULLY to what each Governor has done from O'neil-Weicker-Rowland-Rell-Malloy each has done EXACTLY the same things, created a program to funnel our taxes to a few large corporations (to create jobs, but they don't) and raised taxes on the people while cutting services.

    Ct got screwed when a few large corporations found we had the money to support them, each year we dole 5 billion in tax incentives ALONE, PLUS they pay no taxes and they get a refund from deductions AND they get most of the Energy Fund money as well. Pfizer and GE got billions from us and left because MAss offered more for GE and we state taxpayers were paying the property taxes on Pfizers office towers in New London for 10 years, a deal made by Rowland, they left the year they were supposed to start paying.

    The problem is what you say to a degree but it isn't caused by one party, the party division is a tactic used to keep us arguing among ourselves while they keep going to the bank.
    SuperTechBrewbeer
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
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    The continuing education thing for licenses problem is as you say, an issue with industry insiders and the union. I can understand the need to keep licensed trades current in education and code because it changes, more knowledge is needed, however this should be run by the state and administered by the state, there is isn't any need for outside entities to profit off it, anything FOR PROFIT is going to have issues because profit is the main focus, proof of that is right here in Ct, Wallingford has it's own electric company and it has the cheapest electricity around the north east maybe even the nation because it isn't feeding some greedy billionaires, it's just providing a service as it should be, the rest of us are paying out the WAZOO thanks to greed, ENRON ( who engineered Ct's deregulation scam) and corruption.
    STEVEusaPA
  • Leon82
    Leon82 Member Posts: 684
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    > @GBart said:
    > This state is doomed and is going to get worse. The 5 major cities control the vote and they voted for more taxes tolls and regulations
    >
    > That is total BS, if you have been paying attention CAREFULLY to what each Governor has done from O'neil-Weicker-Rowland-Rell-Malloy each has done EXACTLY the same things, created a program to funnel our taxes to a few large corporations (to create jobs, but they don't) and raised taxes on the people while cutting services.
    >
    > Ct got screwed when a few large corporations found we had the money to support them, each year we dole 5 billion in tax incentives ALONE, PLUS they pay no taxes and they get a refund from deductions AND they get most of the Energy Fund money as well. Pfizer and GE got billions from us and left because MAss offered more for GE and we state taxpayers were paying the property taxes on Pfizers office towers in New London for 10 years, a deal made by Rowland, they left the year they were supposed to start paying.
    >
    > The problem is what you say to a degree but it isn't caused by one party, the party division is a tactic used to keep us arguing among ourselves while they keep going to the bank.

    Democrats have had a majority for a long time and taxed those places out of the state. It was the only way the would stay. Roland wouldn't have been able to do it if they didn't agree. They can't stop spending. So they tax more and spend even more
    GBart
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,428
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    I'm not going to get into the politics of Connecticut -- except to say that the place is run by the mentioned five cities and two big unions -- and what they want they get.

    As to continuing education -- it's not just plumbers who get the short end. I have long campaigned -- with no success at all -- against the continuing education courses for other professions (notably teachers and professional engineers). They are, IMHO, a scam.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    SuperTech
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
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    Well your both wrong, Ct is run by a few large corporations and the mafia.

    Malloy gave CIGNA and UBS hundreds of millions while they cut jobs, thousands, Rowland went to jail TWICE, it has nothing to do with party anymore, Malloy cut services, cut mental health, cut DCF, cut state workers, you need to focus on facts and not rhetoric from the radio.

    If you go to Ct Comptrollers site you will find audits and where the money goes, this is how you track a money problem, with an audit, not an opinion. It's called Open Ct, and there you will find ALL of your money and where it goes, not some punk saying "vote for me and I'll create jobs and cut waste"

    it states: What are Tax Credits?

    Tax credits are a type of tax expenditure. Tax expenditures are exemptions, deductions, credits, preferential or lesser rates, or other mechanisms that lower the amount of tax revenue that would otherwise be collected. Tax expenditures are similar to direct appropriations in that they provide a direct benefit to certain entities at a cost to the state; in this case the cost is reduced tax revenue. Unlike appropriations, tax expenditures are not reviewed and adjusted annually by the legislature. Combined, tax expenditures cost the state more than $5 billion annually.

    https://www.osc.ct.gov/openCT/taxcredits.html
    SuperTechIntplm.
  • mikedo
    mikedo Member Posts: 174
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    yes jamie i agree but connecticut would not have continuing education if the PHCC didn't shaft the working man for there own agenda.
    Intplm.SuperTech
  • Leonard
    Leonard Member Posts: 903
    edited February 2019
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    Heard of continuing ed even 50 years ago for doctors. Likely in some lawsuit an old doctor didn't use a new life saving procedure, so they made a law for continuing ed.

    Now hear of it for engineers , real estate people ( even the phone receptionist if she quotes prices).

    I think it's the legal way to make sure licensed people are informed of the new laws, so guy licensed for 40 years can't say I never heard of that new rule/law.

    When I got my Freon certificate, the whole thing revolved arround can't vent it into the air. don't remember any technical questions on how to make A/C perform well.

    It's the democratic way of thinking...EVERTHING has to be controlled, regulated, and taxed
    SuperTech
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,428
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    That's a capital D on the third word, there, @Leonard

    There was a time when CT was more controlled by the big corporations. Now that they've all left, you have the two unions and the five cities -- look at the electoral districts for both the Senate and the House.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • woodrow
    woodrow Member Posts: 40
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    It is a shame the shape of the state all they do is come up with more tax and spend or legalize gambling now pot not trim the budget and get rid of all the wasted programs and fraud I also go to the continuing ed and dont mind going over the changes but can do with out the flat rate seminar or insurance bonding just another way to get more money out of us most of my customers that have the means are selling all there real estate and moving south
  • mikedo
    mikedo Member Posts: 174
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    the state never asked for continuing education organizations like the PHCC made it happen.
  • mikedo
    mikedo Member Posts: 174
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    maybe a member of the PHCC can post and explain there point of view. 2 sides to every story
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,614
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    Connecticut sucks. And I live in MA which has it's own issues so that is saying something

    I have a CT E1 & S1 (no plumbing)

    CT used to have 2 year license renewals, has been 1 year for years now.

    Every year $300 for E1 & S1 renewals + Electrical code update at $150.

    I must be crazy, close to retirement I let both of them expire last fall because I seldom work down there....then we landed a couple of jobs in CT so I renewed them late.

    Plus I have relatives down there so I work for them for .....free!!!!!

    What really irritates me is CT gets along with no one. I go to code updates in MA for my MA electrical licenses

    But, no CT will not accept that....and it's the same code!!! yet Vermont & New Hampshire will accept MA.

    So I have code updates for both states to do.

    Does anyone know when the S1 will require code updates??

    I am sure they are on the way

    Hopefully I will be retired by then

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,997
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    mikedo said:

    the state never asked for continuing education organizations like the PHCC made it happen.

    mikedo said:

    maybe a member of the PHCC can post and explain there point of view. 2 sides to every story

    I am very sorry you have been fined.
    All very true. I have lived in Ct. my entire life until recently. I moved away last year.
    Some of the problems with Ct. are all stated very clearly above. I tried to correct some of those things.
    In doing so, I noticed that there are 25 or 26 licenses that are under Connecticuts Department of Consumer guide lines. Of those there where, or are, only two licenses that have to go to continuing education classes.
    Those two are -E- And -P- licenses. Thats Electricians and Plumbers. NO OTHERS !!
    In digging further I found some history that had written language in the general statutes. In that language was or is electrical and plumbing only. No other license was mentioned in the beginning history dating back to the late 1960's. So. No other licenses are subject to continued Ed. The big B.S. Scam.
    The lobbyist grasped onto this to persuade, or lobby legislators for continued Education.Its' very lucrative.
    And what stinks about all of this is when you go, the folks teaching the class end up teaching or more accurately presenting the same thing from year to year. We are not learning with this so called continued education.
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,185
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    Wow. And I thought NY sucks, CT is much worse! I wouldn't even mind but the last paragraph of the comment above really irks me, it would be worth it if the classes taught about new technology best practices. I have an apprentice in tech school now and all he is learning besides the basics is information on obsolete equipment! His teacher admits he doesn't know anything about mod cons and will not service them in his day job. Things like this are the reasons why we can't find qualified technicians.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,614
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    I only have to go for electrical code updates in CT. My only complaint is having to go to the update and renew the license EVERY year and the fact thy won't accept MA like the other NE states do.

    That being said the class I attend in CT is very professionally run and it's about $150/yr the state tells them what to teach every year based on the electrical violations the inspectors are seeing on inspections.

    So if they are seeing a lot of swimming pool electrical violations...they dig into that. If standby generators are a problem...they teach that.

    The instructors and the content are good...I don't have a problem with that.

    And as @Intplm. correctly pointed out they have licenses for anything you can think of.

    Lawn sprinklers
    TV antennas etc,etc,etc,etc
    Intplm.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,997
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    Something more upsetting is the fact that if you work for the state of Ct. You DO NOT need a trade license. It is not required.
    You are exempt by state statute!!!
    If you are employed as an electrician? No license required. Plumber? Same thing.
    Hows that for hypocrisy.......?
    And I'm not talking out of my hate. This is a fact.
    SuperTech
  • mikedo
    mikedo Member Posts: 174
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    maybe make the class optional then the people who think they need a review can go and those who don't need a review don't have to waste there time and money.
  • mikedo
    mikedo Member Posts: 174
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    I don't think we will here from anyone from the PHCC everything i said was the truth no way to defend there actions. I was at the state capitol that day to testify for the working man.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,997
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    mikedo said:

    I don't think we will here from anyone from the PHCC everything i said was the truth no way to defend there actions. I was at the state capitol that day to testify for the working man.

    @mikedo Sounds like you and I have covered some of the same ground. And you are right . There is know reason for the CPHCC association to weigh in. They have what they want. They do not care to talk about it any longer. So whats in it for them?

    I feel like we are forced to participate in this, a big scam.

    What I found most disturbing was the hypocrisy. The fact that if you are employed by the state you do not need to be licensed. That means you do not need all of the training and fees paid and have to follow the code requirements.

    THE CODE REQUIREMENTS !!

    Not having to follow code requirements cause you are not
    licensed....and because you do not even know codes exist. But even if you did, how would you know how to apply said codes?

    I could not believe what I had found written into law in Ct.


    Hurts too because of what @SuperTech was saying about training one of his apprentices. Training is a big investment. Apprenticeships are very important. To see the state of Ct. toss all of it in the perverbial hopper for the public sectors employed but enforce it so....... on use, in the private sector?
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
    edited February 2019
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    That's a capital D on the third word, there, @Leonard

    There was a time when CT was more controlled by the big corporations. Now that they've all left, you have the two unions and the five cities -- look at the electoral districts for both the Senate and the House.

    You are SOOOOOOoooooo WRONG, "now that they all have left"?????? , have you heard of this thing called FACTS?

    Fact- Pfzer is still here, and still getting tax incentives while paying no taxes, they moved offices to avoid paying taxes on the New London property that WE TAXPAYERS HAVE BEEN PAYING FOR THEM FOR 10 YEARS, Mass lured them with hundreds of millions that they cut from their education budget to do it. Their R&D and other depts are still here, GE is still here too, not the corporate offices.

    you might want to turn off radio propaganda and read-- https://btu.org/political-action/ge/

    https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/massachusetts-gave-ge-mega-deal-move-did-it-matter

    As to GE, the only other that partially left they never paid any taxes, and low and behold Ct was about to start closing their little loopholes that allow them to not only pay a paltry $250.00 dollars a year but they got a refund and we gave them $750,000 of the Energy Fund to install solar PV, in fact the system was a GE solar pv system so that they had a zero electric bill, the real reason they left is that now they need millenials and millenials hate Fairfield. Still even with the influx of cash from Mass taxpayers GE is failing.

    Mass has higher taxes than Ct, although GE can skirt them, but now all the corporations left in Ct are using the move and Pfizers as a reason to get more incentives and tax dollars and people are falling for it.
    Intplm.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,997
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    It's a sad state of affairs. If you are not in with a large organization, you are not heard. You have no voice. Oh sure. You will be told that you have a voice but to what end?
    I have spoken with politicians and other folks who have some sort of perceived influence. They have said to get in with a organization to be heard.....so goes the PHCC !
  • mikedo
    mikedo Member Posts: 174
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    i wouldn't mind joining an organization that represents the hard working tradesmen and woman. But not one like the PHCC that only represents themselves
    Intplm.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,997
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    I have found that what you are saying is exactly the case. I dont know of other organizations .
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
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    The unfortunate fact is that if the state says you have to do X to maintain your license and you don't you can't renew. The sad fact is that from what I've seen the continuing education for plumbers and electricians could be run better and be focused on advanced training, new technology.

    So far HVAC has dodged the bullet but others like real estate have hell to go through, but the main goal is consumer protection, there are still a lot of hacks out there and Ct is tough, states that have lax or no licensing have some real freaking hacks that have burned peoples houses down and killed them, sometimes they've killed themselves.

    Get involved, make your voices heard, demand better education.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,997
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    GBart said:

    The unfortunate fact is that if the state says you have to do X to maintain your license and you don't you can't renew. The sad fact is that from what I've seen the continuing education for plumbers and electricians could be run better and be focused on advanced training, new technology.

    So far HVAC has dodged the bullet but others like real estate have hell to go through, but the main goal is consumer protection, there are still a lot of hacks out there and Ct is tough, states that have lax or no licensing have some real freaking hacks that have burned peoples houses down and killed them, sometimes they've killed themselves.

    Get involved, make your voices heard, demand better education.

    True hacks in states have made for some real issues.

    The thing is, and lets' not get confused, but those hack issues are not issues that started continuing education. It was false pretenses. Nothing else. Just a lot of nonsense attributing to revenue toward a lobbying group.
    And the training that is offered repeats itself. Training period after training period, again and again.
    Spending a few hundred bucks to get repeated "training!" Plus taking away a full day of your time.

    And you say HVAC has dodged that bullet. Well. If you read my earlier post you will read the reason HVAC hasn't been affected. Also. Let's not forget that there are 25+ other trades that are listed under the St. of Ct. Dept. of Consumer Protections guide lines. Of those, none require continued Ed. Not a single one.
    Because of this , and a few other issues , this is a ploy. Plan and simple. We, along with the St. of Ct. have been hoodwinked.
  • MikeL_2
    MikeL_2 Member Posts: 494
    edited February 2019
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    I respectfully disagree with several points of this discussion. I look forward to my CE sessions; is 8 or 9 hours every two years really a burden? I enjoy being in a room with my peers where there is an exchange of idea's, opinions, policies, procedures, experiences, successes, & failures - I learn something valuable from every session.
    The continuing ed for P1's & 2's has been required since approximately 2006; there have been few penalties assessed until this past year. The State board is working to reduce the penalty fee, and provide an avenue of compliance.
    The PHCC & the State Plumbing Board worked together to define the original CE requirements & curriculum without predjudice; the PHCC is not the only entity offering CE classes. While not perfect, the intent was and continues to be a source for information on key issues regarding Code changes & compliance, jobsite & workplace safety, business operations, and other areas of trade related issues deemed important by the CT State Board.
    Most PHCC members I know operate legitimate, compliant, expert & profitable businesses, and are top notch individuals. I have worked along side of them on charitable projects - each of them dedicated to their craft and public service. The PHCC sponsors a lobbyist that keeps track of the State Legislature and any Bills that may / could affect all Plumbers, PHCC members or not.
    Dedicated professionals make up the PHCC. The PHCC does not make the people......
    Intplm.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,997
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    @MikeL_2 . Surely you are correct with much of what you say. And, I agree with much of what you say here as well. I am happy that you have had good experiences. However. No one has been able to answer to the origins of this, as to why it all started. Not one person or entity has been able to offer in writing why this all started. Not one! Was there some sort of big problem with plumbers to suddenly need this continued ed.? I think not. WHY !? does it exist why was it created?
    When one is left to there own devices because no one tells why we suddenly, out of know where one must attend mandatory continued education, it puts a bad taste in your mouth. Makes it hard to believe that it is needed. It seems under handed and diminishes credibility. The belief system that has been created maybe at first was there to some extent but now is waining.
    I for one have attended faithfully over the years I have witnessed presenters or people teaching this class teaching the same thing class after class year after year. As a former Vocational Education Instructor I Know that if you offer the same things repeatedly you lose your credibility and It becomes a great big mess. Heck! It starts conversations like this. And conversations of this type should not to this extent come to being.
    On the other hand. I too have enjoyed meeting with the like minded people of my trade. I too have enjoyed learning new things. But gee? Isn't that what updated code books are for? I don't need someone to tell me year after year that this is new to the code book. Same thing. Year after year. Truly has been my and other folks experiences.
    I am consider myself a teacher first and for most. I believe in further education. This has not been as expected.