Taco vs Grundfos
Police & Fire Equipment Lead Mechanic, NW WI
Lover of Old Homes & Gravity Hot Water Systems
Comments
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if you have a gravity conversion, that 007 will work absolutely fine. while not as flat curve as a B&G series 100, it is a perfect replacement. the 15-58 is also close enough to be just fine.
yer just heating a house fer cryin in the mud. its cold out there, go fix your boiler0 -
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All those ecm pump like things clean and no mage nite another industry shall appear hydronic system cleaning or better yet go back to a standard pump and a system by pass or differential bypass valve kiss less money less less service calls and less checks and compalaining from the custermers a win win it everybody love not spending money especially on maintaince but if maintaince where free by all means peace and good luck clammy ps I have a few wilo ecm on my own system nice pumps replaced one already bit I’m in the businesss I will always be my custermers Guinea pig
R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
NJ Master HVAC Lic.
Mahwah, NJ
Specializing in steam and hydronic heating1 -
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Ideally I would go with another ECM but no one locally carries them so it’d be a minimum 3-4 day wait. Plenty of standard and 3-spd circs though. I liked the Bumblebee with the possible exception of it being rather noisy (humming/buzzing through the piping during operation). I do have some wiggle room with the piping, should be plenty to suck up an 1/8” difference in length. I ended up being called into work early (again) so I’ll have to wait until 3pm to deal with it. It warmed up a bit, -3°f now, and sunny so I can get at least a little passive solar gain on the first floor. Probably going to try the Grundfos 3-spd to get me thru the next month or so, then may look into a new ECM and a dirtmag as I’m sure the ‘bee was killed by magnetite (will be opening it up at work shortly).Ford Master Technician, "Tinkerer of Terror"
Police & Fire Equipment Lead Mechanic, NW WI
Lover of Old Homes & Gravity Hot Water Systems0 -
The Alpha2 is specifically designed to help mitigate the effects of magnetite, etc... in your system. Add a Dirtmag (fantastic device!) and you should be good to go! Keep the 15-58 as a backup for the Alpha2 once you get it. I just picked up a spare Alpha2 from Pexuniverse.. good place to deal with. I bought the line cord version which will make future swap-outs even quicker.1
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Alpha1 is available there also for less $$ if you don't need all the functions of the 2.NY_Rob said:The Alpha2 is specifically designed to help mitigate the effects of magnetite, etc... in your system. Add a Dirtmag (fantastic device!) and you should be good to go! Keep the 15-58 as a backup for the Alpha2 once you get it. I just picked up a spare Alpha2 from Pexuniverse.. good place to deal with. I bought the line cord version which will make future swap-outs even quicker.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
How many hours does the circulator typically run? As an estimate of hours per day/season?Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!0
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Bases have been covered, but I'd like to add that an 007 is nowhere near WAY too big for your system. The 007 has a very similar curve to a 15-58 on speed 20
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Well, I ended up grabbing the Grundfos 15-58 and putting it in there. Works like a champ. I have no issues with the 007, but when the boiler was new and it was installed on there, we could hear velocity noise in almost every radiator. The curve charts I have show 14-16gpm for the 007 and 10-12gpm for the 15-58 on speed 2. As all but two of my rads are plumbed across the bottom, I was concerned that the water was flying across the bottom connections and not heating as well as they could. I confirmed that by throttling the isolation valve at the circ (heating performance definitely improved). At the time the Bumblebee was the “latest and greatest” so I figured I’d try it, and it worked great on speed 2 (plus it only consumed 20 watts on that setting). As for hours of operation, during the coldest parts of the winter I leave it running 24/7 as it really helps to even out the rad temps. Someday I’ll spring for a modcon but for now the Burnham ESC 4 is humming along without a problem. It’s a bit oversized but not by much (heatloss is 65,000 btu/hr at a design temp of -25°f which we hit for at least 2-3 weeks every winter). The 15-58, on its lowest setting, gets me a solid 20° delta-t, so its good enough for now. I’ll look into the ALPHAs for sure! One more question: once I get a new circ and install it, what can I do to extend the “shelf life” of the 15-58? I held onto that 007 as a backup and by the time I needed it (3-4 years), it had seized up completely. I haven’t disassembled it yet to mess with it, but I’ll get to it today hopefully. It had been installed on the boiler for a month or so before I replaced with the ‘bee. I had rinsed it out and then placed it in a one gallon ziplock, then sucked all the air out. I had hoped that would be sufficient, obviously it wasn’t. Thoughts?Ford Master Technician, "Tinkerer of Terror"
Police & Fire Equipment Lead Mechanic, NW WI
Lover of Old Homes & Gravity Hot Water Systems0 -
Also - I apologize for my “giant paragraph” posts. Every time I break for a new paragraph, my writing disappears from that point on once I hit ‘post.’ Probably due to posting from my phone, but that’s what’s going on. And yes, it drives me nuts too. I heartily apologize.Ford Master Technician, "Tinkerer of Terror"
Police & Fire Equipment Lead Mechanic, NW WI
Lover of Old Homes & Gravity Hot Water Systems1 -
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Moisture really should not cause a circulator to seize up, they are designed to move water. Probably had some minerals in there that locked up the shaft when the water dried out and left them behind.
Or rust.
Most of the time you can remove the allen bolts pull the motor and impeller from the pump body and free them up, or a tap on the volute when you power it up.
Some circulators have a screw slot on the motor end to give them a spin when they lock up.Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream2 -
I have the Alpha 2 as well as two Viridian VT2218's on my boiler and both are fantastic. You will find the Viridian a huge upgrade from the bee. Much better display, more functions and it's virtually silent during operation.0
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Moisture will lock up the motor of a Taco pretty rapidly. That's why they so often seize in OWB applications. They are designed to move water in the volute, not the motor0
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I should’ve specified that after rinsing out the 007, I shook it out and let it air-dry for a week before sealing it up. I haven’t taken it apart yet but I will. I’m sure Hot Rod is correct and the minerals left over are what did it. I always wondered what the large, flat screw on some circ cans was for...now I know! Interestingly my new 15-58 lacks that feature. Oh well. I’ve been reading up on the Alpha and the Viridian, especially since my gas water heater (power vent) just turned 15 years old and I’m thinking about installing an indirect this summer. Always something to do! Thanks, all!Ford Master Technician, "Tinkerer of Terror"
Police & Fire Equipment Lead Mechanic, NW WI
Lover of Old Homes & Gravity Hot Water Systems0 -
@FranklinD, please send me a PM and let me know what type of phone you're on and we'll look into this.FranklinD said:Also - I apologize for my “giant paragraph” posts. Every time I break for a new paragraph, my writing disappears from that point on once I hit ‘post.’ Probably due to posting from my phone, but that’s what’s going on. And yes, it drives me nuts too. I heartily apologize.
Is anyone else running into this issue too?President
HeatingHelp.com0 -
Hi Franklin
Gravity systems are usually equipped with large diameter piping; you mentioned 2"? The large pipe enabled thermal siphoning to get as many BTU's around the system as possible. As you've witnessed without your pump, the system can struggle.
There is not a lot of resistance in your system with 2" line, so 007 will work fine, but hard to move so much volume in your old gravity system, when the pipe is not changed to smaller diameter. Because of that some technicians would go with a high velocity pump to get the water circulating more. Dan Holohan does a much better job explaining it then I can; it's in one of his books; I've read just about all of them. the 0010 would be minimum capacity for your system, and If you like the latest and greatest in technology, try the new 0018e with Bluetooth technology. Taco had a cool demo set up at the annual ASHRAE show in Atlanta. For more on support contact Taco at 401-261-4890 and ask the technicians some challenging questions about your system, and some of the new products available.Joe Mattiello
N. E. Regional Manger, Commercial Products
Taco Comfort Solutions0 -
I installed the bumble bee on 4 systems. All for died quicker than I imagined they would. So I changed to the Grundfos Alphas. Most definitely quieter than the bee. They are all still out there pumping away Still use the new Taco sentry zone valves and controls. Just can't seem to go back to their pumps as the Alphas have been so reliable.
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The early bumble bees had some issues. The newer taco ECMs are really nice. The performance ranges and digital readouts make them a good fit for many applications.Stet said:I installed the bumble bee on 4 systems. All for died quicker than I imagined they would. So I changed to the Grundfos Alphas. Most definitely quieter than the bee. They are all still out there pumping away Still use the new Taco sentry zone valves and controls. Just can't seem to go back to their pumps as the Alphas have been so reliable.
I have trouble finding ECM circs in the grundfos line that are just a little bigger than the alpha. Taco fills that size range nicely."If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
Albert Einstein2 -
Certainly seems that these pumps should last longer than 3 years. It would seem water quality must be the issue0
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