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Buderus GB142 vs Bosch Greenstar

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TAG
TAG Member Posts: 755
With the companies being combined -- is there much difference? They seem to have some price point difference -- I don't see much difference. One of my installers mentioned last year they had some issue with the 142 a few years ago -- so they favor the Bosch. I'm building a new house. Was not Bosch into that market in Europe a long time and it was Buderus that held onto the older technology before going to the wall type condensing. For the small upcharge --I'm still leaning Viessmann. I would just match the indirect

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  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
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    I've installed quite a few GB-142s and like most equipment, when maintained, worked well.
    A few years ago I went to Ireland and made it a point to go into every mechanical room I could. Every single room had a GB-142(s) in it.
    That said, going with Viessmann would be an easy choice for me.
    Steve Minnich
  • invermont
    invermont Member Posts: 73
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    As a home owner I had a gb for 9 years before it was tore out. Was told it wasn’t installed properly among other things which led to its demise. One thing I do know is that it is recommended to be cleaned twice a year and parts are pretty expensive. Cleaning it is no easy task, quite time consuming. I think they may of switched to a stainless hx instead of aluminum. At least that is what they are selling now for replacement. Bosch owns buderus now. As in any heating system, find a reputable company that knows there stuff. Even if it costs s few dollars more.
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 888
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    As far as I know, they discontinued the GB in 2016. I just did a heat exchanger swap out on a poorly maintained GB and MAN! Bosch was a pain. I needed three new gaskets but they would not sell them separately they made me pay for the whole new part and that was not cheap. Then if you think you are reusing the supply and return sensor as well as the safety sensor on the block getting them out will hurt your feelings. By the time you swap the block even with 50% off the cost of the block and all the necessary parts, you can buy a new mod con.

    Any boiler that needs cleaning twice a year isn't worth it.

    I will never install a BOSCH product for those reasons.
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 755
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    They do have a new boiler line SSB. I don't see where the 142 went away? I guess with the number of 142's in the field there will be some with problems. Everybody has a different idea -- The 142 has a generous amount of exhaust piping in the specification .. vs the Bosch. Buderus is selling the new SSB as a well priced boiler -- it sits on the floor. I was told a while back the Buderus was bought to be the high end line in the Bosch line up -- wall boilers.

  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,574
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    @TAG
    I have trouble seeing any upside to aluminum heat exchangers. They work OK with the water chemistry in some area if properly maintained. They will fail early when exposed to certain types of water. I would pay full price for a Viessmann or Lochinvar before I would install a free Bosch....

    What do you mean by "match the indirect"? There is no reason that the boiler and indirect need to be the same brand. There is also no reason that the max BTU rating of the indirect needs to match the boiler.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    TinmanGordyDZoroSolid_Fuel_Man
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 755
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    Zman- Unfortunately, no free Bosch. Wish! Have done many projects over the years with "old school" Buderus CI boilers. I can't use one on this project -- it's also a project where I don't or should not need any high heat radiators ( I may need one panel that I can oversize). Was trying to understand how the products differ within the Bosch corporate structure .. they must be going after different markets? I would think.

    Since I had always used Buderus -- I'm only familiar with the Buderus products. Some like the HTP superstore ... But, I never had a reason to switch. The Viessmann seems to be around the same price .. so if I go Viessmann I will try a V tank. No one has suggested the Lochinvar ..yet.
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 888
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    TAG

    I think Zman is saying you could not give him a Bosch that he would install. I feel bad when I go to a customer and tell them they have literally thousands in repair bills when its only 11 years old, due to a bad heat exchanger. But thats just me.
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 755
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    Tom --133. Temporary blond on my part ... I get now "no like Bosch" I was all set on the Viessmann and then the second set of contractors arrived indicating they recently had issues w/ the company.

    My old CI Buderus boilers may not be getting 96 % -- But they run forever w/ almost no issues. My neighbors with similar sized houses are on second sets of high efficiency boilers. Why try and save $300 a season in NG and spend 13k+ every 10 years replacing two boilers w/ more maintenance cost along the way.

    So the Bosch is Al and the Buderus is SS .. but still needs to be cleaned twice a year ?
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    edited February 2019
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    HTP UFT series has SS HX and only needs to be descaled (just connect external hoses/pump in a bucket with descaler) every 2-3yrs.
    No need to disassemble anything. Minimal maint and reliable.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited February 2019
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    ^Don’t forget about the aluminum fins in the firetubes🙂.

    That boiler hasn’t been in the market to long yet.
  • Le John
    Le John Member Posts: 226
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    @Gordy @NY_Rob You've got me wondering about aluminum fins in my Lochinvar Noble.
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    edited February 2019
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    Well, in the HTP UFT HX the aluminum fins are on the fire side not the water side. The parts of the HX exposed to water are SS.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited February 2019
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    ^ Right. What’s in that condensate that’s AL friendly :)
    NY_RobSolid_Fuel_Man
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,048
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    I'm understanding the Lochinvar Noble fire tube is stainless...No?
    D
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 755
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    Thought the Buderus GB was SS ... it seems the Bosch is less expensive (maybe that's why they install more)?

    I'm sure nothing will run for 20 years w/o needing much like the old CI stuff.

  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
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    There is no way I would install anything which had ANY aluminum in it. Fire or water side. Aluminum has some great properties and I use it in many places, hydronics is not one of them.

    I still believe stainless steel is the best HX material for a condensing appliance of any type. The only reason manufacturers are using aluminum is that it's cheaper than SS, as far as I can tell.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    DZoro
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,701
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    TAG the GB is aluminum. It's like teeth, if you ignore them they will go away.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    Gordy
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    I understand what HTP is doing with the aluminum fines in the firetubes on the Uft. It’s a great boiler. Maybe the aluminum fins will be fine. I just see the condensate eating at them. Maybe in non condensing installs they will last longer. Maybe they will slowly disappear in the condensate drain, and you will never know until you look, and don’t see them anymore.

    Might be worth a peak now, and then every few years.

    If they do go away how much will efficiency be effected if they are not even there? Other fire tubes do not utilize them.

    I’m by no means trying to bad mouth that company, or boiler. For the price point it’s the best value on the market, with a great range in sizing.