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help.baseboard waterfall,gurgling noise. utica system

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lowslow
lowslow Member Posts: 20
in THE MAIN WALL
Hi. I have a utica system about 10 yrs old. i have 3 zones. The first zone is very loud .I bled a couple of times ,after 10 min it goes back to being loud again. what the hell ?

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  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    More info is needed, but you've still got air in it. Is this a monoflo system?

    Some pics of the boiler, its near piping, and where the branches connect to the main would be very helpful.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    lowslow
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,949
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    The near boiler piping should show what type of purge set up you have at the boiler.
    lowslow
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    There is a zip file in there ,(that if i can figure it out to open them all at the time IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA) where are more pics.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,506
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    It's piped wrong. You'll always have air problems
    steve
    lowslow
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    STEVEusaPA said:

    It's piped wrong. You'll always have air problems

    what's piped wrong STEVE
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    What is piped wrong ? steve. Thank you for your input
  • Brewbeer
    Brewbeer Member Posts: 616
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    @lowslow Which way is the circulator moving the water?

    If it is circulator is moving the water from below the circulator to above the circulator, the water is flowing though the boiler in the wrong direction, and there is an elbow immediately before the air elimination device. A length of straight pipe is generally installed before the air elimination device, to reduce turbulence and increase the efficiency of air removal.
    Hydronics inspired homeowner with self-designed high efficiency low temperature baseboard system and professionally installed mod-con boiler with indirect DHW. My system design thread: http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154385
    System Photo: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/79/451e1f19a1e5b345e0951fbe1ff6ca.jpg
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    It looks like a line has blown loose from a Sharkbite fitting above the boiler.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    "Ironman">It looks like a line has blown loose from a Sharkbite fitting above the boiler.
    that pipe its not connected .it is supposed to be the 2 nd floor zone

  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    the pipe that you see loose its not connected. its the second floor zone ,which is not hooked up yet.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    Why is the ball valve on the return for it open? I would trust a zone valve to seal off an open line.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
    edited January 2019
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    What's the cold static pressure on the boiler? You have to manually lock open the zone valve for the loop you're trying to purge.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    @Ironman that is the pressure it reads. ((You have to manually lock open the zone valve for the loop you're trying to purge.))) I am not trying to purge it, because has been done by plumbers and comes back to the same problem.I am trying to understand what can be done to correct the problem.
    This is the schematic that it seems like it installed like.

  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    @Brewbeer you mean an extra pipe before the air seperator tank ?
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    @STEVEusaPA why is it piped wrong .how would you have done it ?
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    IF the gauge is correct, then your water temperature is too high. 212* is the boiling point of water. With your circulator being incorrectly located like it now is, and pumping toward the PONPC instead of away from it, you could very well have water boiling and/or be in a vacuum at the highest points in the system when the circulator is running.

    There's a long scientific explanation for it which you can read about in the resource section or get Dan's book called "Pumping Away" from the store on this site.

    Simply put, your circulator is in the wrong place which the installation diagram clearly shows.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    @Ironman where would you put the circulator ?being the space i have there is not that big ? but one thing though i remember the circulator was installed i believe.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    Like the drawing shows, pumping away from the PONPC (where the expansion tank connects to the system).
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    @Ironman im not that great with the schematics. i am handy as far as getting pipes threaded ,soldiered and such but laying out the system is not that easy for me.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,949
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    You have air in your system. If you are hearing noise in the zone that sounds like nuts and bolts being shaken in a tin can......you have air in your system. Or in that zone that you hear the noise in.

    How long has this problem been going on.

    Also @Ironman is absolutely correct. PONC or point of no pressure change is the way your boiler should be piped.
    Look at his picture.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,949
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    Might be able to get you going with what you have. The thing is.........the problem will more than likely come back over time.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,506
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    Whats the model number of the boiler?
    steve
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    @STEVEusaPA MGB1OOHD
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    @Ironman @Intplm. does that mean i have to switch the zone valves as well to that location ?
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    @Intplm. You have air in your system. If you are hearing noise in the zone that sounds like nuts and bolts being shaken in a tin can......you have air in your system. Or in that zone that you hear the noise in.

    How long has this problem been going on.

    This has been going on for a while. like 3 yrs .I know that i have air in the system. Last year the system was purged a couple of times. After 10min of running ok it does the same thing all over again. this year i have not done anything to it
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,143
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    Or move the expansion tank connection to the inlet of the circulator, and leave it where it is. If it is pumping into the boiler? Should be an arrow on the bottom of it.

    A new tank, a wash machine hose and temporally connect it to one of the purge valve to see the effect of pumping away from the tank.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    @hot rod_7 yes the arrow of the pump shows going down. you mean install a new espansion tank ? eliminate the one in the old place ?
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,949
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    In order to purge this with what you have. You need to purge zone one with zone one, Zone two with zone two, and zone three with zone three.
    The picture seems to suggest that you are not doing this or your zones are out of order making for a poor purge or no purge at all.
    Be sure to have your purge in sequence with the supply and return.
    Turn the power off to the boiler.

    Put a bucket out side with the end of a garden hose in the bucket the other end attached to the zone you wish to purge. THEY MUST BE IN ORDER. 1,2,3.....Open zone one, Close zones 2 and 3.
    Force water through zone one with the water feeder open.
    Do this for at least 20 min. on each zone.

    This can be a bit confusing if you haven't had it demonstrated to you . It's very hard to convey in a post.
    It would be a good idea in invest in a reputable contractor to get this done as best it can with what you have to work with.

    lowslow
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    @Intplm. i was not looking to find out how to purge it .I wanted to find out why is it occurring more than usual.
  • lowslow
    lowslow Member Posts: 20
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    Update .I purged the system and cant hear it all coming on. will see what will happen in the months or days to come and take it from there.
    Thank you everyone.

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