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Looking for a Quieter Boiler

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Mudaero
Mudaero Member Posts: 46
Hey gang,

I just refinished my basement and am looking for some input. I currently have a 25 year old, Weil Mclain HE II boiler that's just a little louder than I would prefer. Unfortunately, because of it's location, the boiler needs to be atmospheric vent. Does anyone have any experience with the Burnham models (ES2, series 2, series 3), Peerless MI series, or Weil Mclain CGA series and can attest to their sound levels? Any input would be helpful. Thanks

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  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,378
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    Any atmosepheric natural draft boiler should be quiet; it's the ones with inducers that are louder.

    You can stand next to an ES2 and not know its firing.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Mudaero
    Mudaero Member Posts: 46
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    Thanks Ironman. That's exactly what I was hoping to hear as I really like the ES2 model.
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
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    System 2000. The quietest oil boilers I know of.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    GBartSuperTech
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,858
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    > @Solid_Fuel_Man said:
    > System 2000. The quietest oil boilers I know of.

    He's got gas but the System 2000 might be even more quiet with the EZ Gas.
    And tons more efficient than an atmospheric boiler.
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
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    HVACNUT said:

    > @Solid_Fuel_Man said:

    > System 2000. The quietest oil boilers I know of.



    He's got gas but the System 2000 might be even more quiet with the EZ Gas.

    And tons more efficient than an atmospheric boiler.

    agreed, let's outlaw atmospheric OK???? it's 1940"s technology and about 40% efficient
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
    edited January 2019
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    You are going to ruffle feathers by that statement!

    Dont know why I was thinking oil...
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    kcopp
  • Mudaero
    Mudaero Member Posts: 46
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    Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, because of the boiler location, the only place I am able to vent is through the chimney, thus requiring me to use at atmospheric vented boiler. I would love to use something else, but I just don't see how. And I should have clarified the the fuel source is Natural Gas.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,378
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    You could drop a PPL liner down the chimney and use a mod/con boiler. They're (the liner) not expensive.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    Solid_Fuel_Mankcopp
  • Mudaero
    Mudaero Member Posts: 46
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    I had thought about something like that but I also have the hot water heater venting through the chimney as well. So I would need to take that into account also. Right now the boiler and HWH are tied into the same vent pipe.
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
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    Mudaero said:

    Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, because of the boiler location, the only place I am able to vent is through the chimney, thus requiring me to use at atmospheric vented boiler. I would love to use something else, but I just don't see how. And I should have clarified the the fuel source is Natural Gas.

    that doesn't require you to use atmospheric, the chimney can be used as a chase for PVC or lined for a System 2000
    rick in Alaska
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,378
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    Mudaero said:

    I had thought about something like that but I also have the hot water heater venting through the chimney as well. So I would need to take that into account also. Right now the boiler and HWH are tied into the same vent pipe.

    You could use an indirect water heater with a mod/con. They come already setup for the addition of one. You'd have a lot more hot water, too.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    Solid_Fuel_ManBrewbeerkcopp
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,183
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    The system 2000 will include a brazed plate heat exchanger and hot water tank. It will provide you with endless amounts of hot water and make it using less energy than your current setup.
  • Mudaero
    Mudaero Member Posts: 46
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    Creates a little larger investment than I was hoping, but it's definitely something to consider. I assume the direct vent boilers are quieter than the atmospheric ones?
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    edited January 2019
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    ^ direct vent and power vent both have blowers which atmospheric boilers don't have... it can be a source of noise.
    A properly sized mod-con boiler spends most of it's life firing at a very low rate however, so the blower is also running at a very low RPM which helps keep noise down. When firing on low, I have to actually look at the panel of my mod-con to see if the flame is on (vs. just circulating warm water without adding heat)- that's how quiet it is running on low fire.
    BoonTinmanBrewbeerrick in Alaska
  • John Mills_5
    John Mills_5 Member Posts: 952
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    HE II, that's what Dad had put in the family home just before moving. You ain't a kidding that thing is loud. I've heard oil burners lots quieter. We've sold some Series 3, just a whisper.
  • Mudaero
    Mudaero Member Posts: 46
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    Good to get some perspective from someone who knows the current sound level I am dealing with. Never really bothered me when the basement was just a basement. But now as a finished area, I would really like to reduce the noise as much as I can.
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
    edited January 2019
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    A mod/con with indirect is my vote. Absolute quietest for gas.

    What type of radiation do you have? Cast iron, baseboard etc?
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • Mudaero
    Mudaero Member Posts: 46
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    Actually, that's another good point to mention, it's actually a mixed system. Basement is slant/fin, all others are cast iron. 2 zone valves separate the systems. I feel the basement calls for heat more often (it is really well insulated) but the baseboards won't hold the heat like the radiators. This would be another reason why a constant cycle at a low fire rate would make sense (as stated above).
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,438
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    If you are or have finished off the basement don't forget about combustion air. See too many folks just wall off the mechanical room and the unit starts sooting, CO and poor performance....
  • Mudaero
    Mudaero Member Posts: 46
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    No issue with combustion air. The mechanical room is very small but there is a full louvered door so it gets plenty of air flow. Coincidentally, this is one of the reasons I am looking for a new boiler as a full door would have been quieter but the air flow would not have been there.
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
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    Mudaero said:

    ..it's actually a mixed system. Basement is slant/fin, all others are cast iron. 2 zone valves separate the systems.

    Mod-cons love cast iron... it virtually eliminates short-cycling.

    Please measure the lengths of the actual fin tube elements inside the slant/fin enclosures and add them together, we can then see how much heat that zone can radiate.

    Is the cast iron baseboard or conventional radiators?

  • Mudaero
    Mudaero Member Posts: 46
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    18' of Slant/Fin (Multi Pak 80, 730 BTU / Foot @ 180°). The rads upstairs are classic cast iron. 4 on main floor (estimated @ about 40,000 BTU max) and 3 upstairs (estimated @ about 20,000 BTU max).
  • Mudaero
    Mudaero Member Posts: 46
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    Strike that, the Multi/Pak 80 comes in at 840 BTU @ 4 GPM @ 180°
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,378
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    Mudaero said:

    Strike that, the Multi/Pak 80 comes in at 840 BTU @ 4 GPM @ 180°

    You need to use 170* AVERAGE water temp to calculate the output.

    But regardless, there may not be enough of a load from that to preventing short cycling of a low mass mod/con. You need to compare that number to the minimum firing rate of whatever model and size mod/con is selected to determine if some buffer or combining of zones will be necessary.

    The HTP UFT boiler has a 10 to 1 turn down, so an 80k btu would have a minimum firing rate of 8k btus. A lot of mod/cons only have a 5 to 1 turn down.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    NY_Rob
  • ChaseNP
    ChaseNP Member Posts: 2
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    Weil Mclain ultra oil, it's a cast iron boiler that will last much longer than a system 2000.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,858
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    > @ChaseNP said:
    > Weil Mclain ultra oil, it's a cast iron boiler that will last much longer than a system 2000.

    The OP is looking for a quiet gas boiler, not oil.
    The Ultra oil is an ok boiler when using a Beckett NX burner but its not exactly quiet. I've never seen one with a gas conversion burner but I'm sure they're out there.