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Burner Nozzles?

DIY_GuyDIY_Guy Member Posts: 38
In doing my current cleaning I’m trying to figure out what nozzle, if any, may help with my short cycling steam system.

Very quickly : I have a 421 sq ft slant fin liberty boiler with only 185 edr attached. It has a tankless heater which is not being used.

This liberty boiler label states to use a 1.10 or 1.25 gph nozzle. 80w
The AFG Beckett burner say it can fire at a range of .85gph to 1.35gph
It currently had, from last service ( not me) a Delavan 1.00 gph 80A nozzle on it?

So, I’m trying to decide if through nozzle choice I might add efficiency in both cycling and overall oil use for this oversized boiler, while satisfying the nozzle choices presented by the manufacturers.

Thoughts?

Comments

  • STEVEusaPASTEVEusaPA Member Posts: 2,441
    edited January 7
    Do you have a combustion analyzer, smoke gun and know how to use them, and how to interpret the results?
    Underfiring a steam boiler usually results in less efficiency. And going too small with a nozzle may require the need to change the end cone. Add in unstable performance and condensing in the flue pipe, heat exchanger and chimney.
    When you want to boil a pot of water do you put the stove on medium or high?
    steve
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 9,383
    Unless you have access to, and know how to use, the necessary equipment to properly adjust the burner, I can't recommend trying various nozzles. That's not to say that you might not be able to improve things by downfiring as far as the burner will let you go and seeing if that helps -- but given that the boiler doesn't seem to want to go anywhere near that far, you may find that downfiring drops efficiency rather dramatically. But the only way to know is to use the measuring equipment to see what's really happening.

    I might point out that even with the smallest firing rate the burner calls for you will still be up around a rate equivalent to 400 EDR -- so still insanely oversized so it will still short cycle like mad. In addition I would point out that with the continued short cycling, even if the small nozzle could be brought up to the efficiency of the nozzles in the range specified by the boiler, you won't save any significant amount of oil -- and if the efficiency drops you may even wind up using more oil.
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • DIY_GuyDIY_Guy Member Posts: 38
    Good info guys thank you. I don’t have test equip. Not necessarily looking to down fire it but it seems like someone already has... so was wondering if I should stay with that or go back up to the 1.10 the boiler asks for.

    The boiler also asks for a 80 W nozzle
    The burner, according to Delevan, asks for an 60 or 70, A or B nozzle...

    Hard to get straight talk from these specs on this but I’m inclined to go with the boiler specs. Make sense?
  • DIY_GuyDIY_Guy Member Posts: 38
    Point taken!

  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 12,549
    Where are you located? We might know someone in your area.

    You should have the L-30 Liberty, or LD-30 if it has a hinged burner mounting plate that swings open. The current version is the TR-30 Intrepid, which uses essentially the same cast-iron block. When properly installed and tuned, they run well with Carlin EZ-Gas or Midco EC power gas burners as well as the oil burners supplied with them.

    Our experience with these boilers has shown there is some flexibility in down-firing them, but this should never be done without proper test equipment as mentioned above. Air/fuel mix, smoke (should be zero), CO2, stack temp and especially Carbon Monoxide must be measured and set to proper levels, otherwise you might be setting up a dangerous condition. Only a digital combustion analyzer in the hands of a trained tech can do this properly.

    Given the radiation you have, however, that boiler is going to short-cycle no matter what. It's not possible to down-fire a boiler by 50% and still maintain good combustion and heat transfer. But you'd have plenty of capacity should you decide to build an addition and heat it with steam!
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • DIY_GuyDIY_Guy Member Posts: 38
    It’s an L30. Portland, Maine. Would love to know of a company or technician willing to “work” with me on tweaking this old system. But I need someone who isn’t put off that I’m gonna do some of my own work, mess with, mod, change things, re-pipe, re-vent things etc. in between visits. It’s what I do! Lol
  • HVACNUTHVACNUT Member Posts: 1,729
    > @DIY_Guy said:
    > It’s an L30. Portland, Maine. Would love to know of a company or technician willing to “work” with me on tweaking this old system. But I need someone who isn’t put off that I’m gonna do some of my own work, mess with, mod, change things, re-pipe, re-vent things etc. in between visits. It’s what I do! Lol

    And say sometimes "Can you replace LWCO if I buy it?"
    Your not going to have a good relationship with any contractor who's homeowner likes to fiddle with things.
  • DIY_GuyDIY_Guy Member Posts: 38
    For the record, I would NEVER do what you’ve suggested. I respect people who are masters of their craft, but that does not need to leave the rest of us out of the party. I love to tinker and learn, but I’m also happy to pay for things beyond my skill or tool inventiry. I just did major remodel to my home working side by side with a master carpenter who often works hands on with the owner. Times are a changing my friend.
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 9,383
    DIY_Guy said:

    For the record, I would NEVER do what you’ve suggested. I respect people who are masters of their craft, but that does not need to leave the rest of us out of the party. I love to tinker and learn, but I’m also happy to pay for things beyond my skill or tool inventiry. I just did major remodel to my home working side by side with a master carpenter who often works hands on with the owner. Times are a changing my friend.

    The only thing -- and it really is about the only thing -- to remember is that in the plumbing and heating and electrical trades, most of the people who are working are licensed. Part of that license is the presumption that if the tradesperson touches it, the tradesperson is entirely responsible for it, whether they have had help from the homeowner or whoever. Back in the day, this might have been just fine. Unfortunately, as you so aptly note, "for the times. they are a changin'" -- to give my friend Bob's exact line. And the change means that if something goes amiss, there will be a lawyer on the spot and the tradesperson's livelihood is in jeopardy. Which may explain the reluctance to work with others...
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
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