Exploding 4 year old whirlpool fridge

ChrisJ

Matt_67 said:

We do quite a bit of service work on small commercial reach-ins and R-290 is very common on the newer ones. One of the manufacturers did a training for us and we have a service kit for it and some 'refrigerant grade' propane cylinders - I guess its dryer and more pure. I'm actually looking for a refrigerator for my home right now and the manufacturers are not making it easy to know what refrigerant they are using - I can't find it in the specs on most units which makes me think they might be using propane too.

I've never seen a residential refrigerator that didn't have a tag inside of it indicating the charge.

I've seen R600, but no R290 units.


This is inside a mini fridge we have at work and I'm pretty sure it's R600 but I don't feel like pulling it out right now.

Solid_Fuel_Man

They stopped using R134a in small appliances/home stuff?

ChrisJ

Solid_Fuel_Man said:

They stopped using R134a in small appliances/home stuff?

I don't know if they've stopped, but worldwide they have been trying to get away from it for a long time.

Isobutane is popular in minifridges, but I don't know about larger ones yet.

A dehumidifier I bought a few years back was 410A.

Solid_Fuel_Man

R410 is one of my least favorite refrigerants, very high pressures. Another reason the dislike mini-splits, 410 was developed by Daikin to be used in that market though.

ChrisJ

Solid_Fuel_Man said:

R410 is one of my least favorite refrigerants, very high pressures. Another reason the dislike mini-splits, 410 was developed by Daikin to be used in that market though.

I thought Daikin developed R32? Didn't think they had anything to do with 410A. Actually I thought Carrier was where it started.

Personally, I don't care what refrigerant is in something or what pressures it runs as long as the system is well engineered and well built.

HVACNUT

Bring back ammonia?

ChrisJ

HVACNUT said:

Bring back ammonia?

I'm cool with good old R717 but I don't think there's any "Bring back". It was never used in residential and is still used commercially.

GBart

Better wake up ladies, if you're going to work on this stuff you'd better flush it with nitrogen AFTER recovering and BEFORE doing any repair that involves an ignition source or you're going to wear it.

This has already been going on around the world.

and someone said "how could it explode there isn't enough oxygen to...."

seriously? what do you think the box is full of, carbon dioxide???

http://www.acr-news.com/fridge-explosion-sparks-worldwide-recall-

GBart

years ago this college professor was hired by refrigeration corporations to give classes and show how safe this, he sat in a car and opened cans of R290 and then light a candle, until one day,.................( this also explains the phrase " a university study...blah blah" they mean nothing, they were paid for by a corporation to show a certain result)

fast forward to 3min if you want

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0K1WPCWm2k

Gordy

All I have to say is that took balls, which should have been kicked before he struck the match..............

GBart

Just goes to show a college education doesn't mean you're superior or know everything, they're sitting monitoring atmosphere conditions inside the car and they think that means nothing can happen...............wrong

KC_Jones

GBart said:

Just goes to show a college education doesn't mean you're superior or know everything, they're sitting monitoring atmosphere conditions inside the car and they think that means nothing can happen...............wrong

That applies to pretty much everything that anyone can do.
Just because you have been doing something for a couple decades doesn't make you superior or know everything.

In addition the opposite is true, I don't need to go to college or do something my entire life to have knowledge about a certain topic. There are many other means to that knowledge.

Gordy

Yeah just about anyone could think of a few different ways to use a remote ignition source. Also a few other less expensive enclosures to try the experiment in rather than the inside of a vehicle........

apraetor

@Matt_67 The model number is WRS325SDHZ00, it's in the original article. According to Whirpool it runs on 5.5oz of R-134a. I bet it's 4 months old, as that model is still being actively sold by Home Depot. I'm thinking the defrost cycle ran nonstop in concert with the compressor, and eventually it popped a weak weld. Thermal decomposition of 134a produces hydrofluoric acid. Decomposed refrigerant could also explain the odor.

Looks like the same effect as a pipe bomb, where initial confinement increases the destructive effect.

Leonard

I assume guy in car used propane.
According to web propane flammability limits are 2.1 to 9.5% fuel to air ratio by volume. Guessing guy was ASSUMING he would have in excess of that so it would not ignite. Maybe was cold day & can, so not as much propane exited can as expected.

https://www.mathesongas.com/pdfs/products/Lower-(LEL)-&-Upper-(UEL)-Explosive-Limits-.pdf

In car gas tanks ---gas vapor to air ratio is too high to ignite. That's why can have variable resistor (gas guage) and pumps inside tank. When my 12V in tank gas pump froze up I wanted apply 36VDC to it to try to break it free. But for safety I first did a spark test on 1/4 inch of gasoline in a coffee can with a small glass cover resting on it.

Used sparker from old BBQ grill to power wires expoxied thru can's wall to a spark gap. I could clearly see the spark but no flame. I next removed cover and sparked again -- no flame. I had to wave air into can to get spark to ignite the gas. Gas vapor is heavier than air so spark was going thru ~ 100% gasoline vapor( no air ).

So I applied 36VDC (3 car bats) to in tank pump, got big spark at bat , but no go , ethanol had rusted pump motor solid after 2 years of sitting.

Gordy

Nice experiment, but I think I would have just bought a new pump...

sunlight33

Guess that wasn't rehearsed enough.

Leonard

Wasn't $50 cost of the pump. Didn't want to drop tank, it's a pain, I'm older. Once tank is down it's easy to replace pump.

Thing is it's a spare car so it sits. 2 years before that I replaced the pump and let it sit another 2 years before I found new pump was dead too. Found ethanol in gasoline pulls humidity out of air and rusted laminations together in pump motor. So now I put high dose of gas stabilizer in the tank, have little gas in tank, and run car more often to swap the gas.

Gordy

Yeah my Tahoe had the fuel pump go out. Full tank of course. Murphy’s law. You have to drop the tank. My daughters bonneville went out. It had a nice convenient access port in the trunk so you could change it.

I also know if you run the tank less than 1/4 full it causes the pump to over heat as the fuel cools the pump.

Leonard

I'm told mine wear out at 100k - 125k miles. My everyday ride died @ ~ 130k , 93 Chevy Caprice

I've taken that pump apart. Gas flows THRU the motor cooling it. I'm guessing being submerged in gas wouldn't cool it much more. On mine they come with a foam sleave over pump for noise, so that impies my pump type doesn't need external cooling

http://www.radiatorexpress.com/product/fuel pump/chevrolet/1996/caprice/classic/43l-v8/225879/1037494 <--pump pic

Gordy

Problem is gas sloshing around in the tank also. This is how the fuel level sending unit gets messed up, and the pump. That was the precursor in my Tahoe. Fuel gauge was reading erroneously. The pump, and sending unit are all in one. So may as well wait until the pump craps out.

Another thing that worked for a short period is hitting the bottom of the tank where the fuel pump is.

Steamhead

Gordy said:

All I have to say is that took balls, which should have been kicked before he struck the match..............

Also shows, once again, that you can't fix stupid!

jumper

Decades ago a guy in Florida was jailed for recharging cars' R22 A/C s with propane. Probably wasn't even refrigerant grade. Was there a danger of explosion?

I'm nostalgic about old desktop computers with no internet and no hard drive. Organized floppies keep you leaner and better organized than the infinite storage we enjoy nowadays. One problem is repairing ancient machine. Another is how do you PRINT ?