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Cold Upstairs room

Hello guys

I have been working on my steam system and made several updates.

I removed all upstairs convectors and replaced them with standing radiators.

Here is my current problem.

Downstairs temp is 73. Upstairs two rooms temp is around 68F but one room is 62F. The room with the 62F temperature has new radiator pitched properly. I have varivalve vent on it fully open. Also, this radiator is on the same side of the house where the boiler is (boiler is in the basement and this room is on 2nd floor)

When heat is on, i see the first part of radiator getting hot and the rest stays mostly warm. The entire thing does not get really hot.

Please suggest.

Thank you

Comments

  • FredFred Posts: 6,960Member
    edited December 6
    Get rid of the Varivalves. They vent too aggressively and most likely, with it fully open, the steam is racing across the top or bottom of those radiators and closing the vent before the radiator can heat up. If you have them on all the radiators in your house, the other radiators, on the first floor may be robbing all the steam. The rule is to vent mains fast and radiators slowly. Use Vent-rite, Hoffman or Maid-O-Mist.
  • kevinjames79kevinjames79 Posts: 42Member
    edited December 7
    Thanks for the help Fred.

    Replaced varivents with hoffman. I will let you know how it goes.
  • kevinjames79kevinjames79 Posts: 42Member
    Hello

    Changing the vent did not help. Please help.

    Problem is only in one room.
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 4,499Member
    also check the pitch of all the piping associated with this radiator. You could have a low spot collecting water. Do you here any banging?? Is the radiators valve completely open??
  • kevinjames79kevinjames79 Posts: 42Member
    Attached is the image of the radiator
  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Posts: 3,822Member
    What is the main venting like?
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Posts: 7,513Member
    What sort of main vents are on the returns? You need large main vents, and slower vents, like the Hoffmans on the rads.--NBC
  • FredFred Posts: 6,960Member
    Do you have Varivalves on all the other radiators in the house? Do you have all the other radiator vents fully open? Steam is going to take the path of least resistance which will be the shortest path with the largest vents on them.
    What kind of vents do you have on the Mains? Is each main vented? The mains need very good venting first and then you can balance the radiators.
  • Gary SmithGary Smith Posts: 182Member
    What size and length are your steam mains and what are your main vents?
    Once the steam main vents are large enough (mains get hot all the way to the ends reasonably quickly) then work on adjusting the various radiator vents. You may have to slow down the rad vents in rooms that get hot and in this space where the thermostat is, and slightly speed up the cold room vent until the house temperature is balanced. I like vent-rite #1A rad vents for their ease of adjustment.

    I had similar problems with 6-8 degrees temp differences from first to second floor, but tweaking the speed of the rad vents corrected it to within one degree difference.

    Also check the pigtail under the pressuretrol is not clogged and the pressuretrol is set to a low pressure.

    If you provide details os mains, main vents, and pressuretrol settings, plenty of people here will help.


  • kevinjames79kevinjames79 Posts: 42Member
    2 main lines have big mouth at the end of each line.

    I do not have varivalve on any radiator now. All ground floor radiators have gorton #4. Upstairs have hoffman 1A
  • FredFred Posts: 6,960Member

    2 main lines have big mouth at the end of each line.



    I do not have varivalve on any radiator now. All ground floor radiators have gorton #4. Upstairs have hoffman 1A

    Then you either have a radiator run-out that is pitched wrong or the horizontal under the floor is pitched incorrectly. Check the radiator run out in the basement for that radiator and make sure it is pitched back towards the main. Raise that radiator up another 1/2" or so, on the supply side, if you can and then repitch the vent side so that it is pitched back towards the supply side.

    How long does your boiler run each cycle? What type thermostat do you have? If it is programmable, do you have it set for steam? They come with a factory default of 5 cycles per hour. You want to program it for 1 or 2 cycles per hour. The boiler may not be running long enough to get steam to the further radiators.
  • kevinjames79kevinjames79 Posts: 42Member
    Thank you Fred

    I will try to raise the radiator a little bit on Saturday.

    One point to note here is that the radiator does get hot a little bit (stays mostly warm) but i can see that it gets the heat at the end of the heating cycle. By the time it starts getting the heat, the cycle stops.

    I have set the cycle to 1 CPH. I think it runs for about 20 minutes each time with breaks every 5 minutes. I think the breaks are the LWCO. The kind of LWCO is where it has to stop and check.

    My pressuretrol setting is between 0.5 and 1 with 1 differential.

    Checking Radiator runout in the basement is very hard as the pipes are hidden behind walls.
  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Posts: 7,513Member
    If the breaks are from the LWCO, then replace it with its stable mate, which has no periodic shutdowns.--NBC
  • kevinjames79kevinjames79 Posts: 42Member
    > @nicholas bonham-carter said:
    > If the breaks are from the LWCO, then replace it with its stable mate, which has no periodic shutdowns.--NBC

    Which one is that ?
  • FredFred Posts: 6,960Member

    > @nicholas bonham-carter said:

    > If the breaks are from the LWCO, then replace it with its stable mate, which has no periodic shutdowns.--NBC



    Which one is that ?

    It is the Safegard. It uses the same probe as the Cyclegard (the one you have) so you won't have to drain the boiler to change it out.
    Cyclegards are a PITA and most people won't use them for the very reason you see.
  • kevinjames79kevinjames79 Posts: 42Member
    Is changing to safgard easy? Or do i need professional help?

  • FredFred Posts: 6,960Member
    It is an easy change-out But it does need to be wired correctly. If you are not comfortable with following the diagram to wire it into the safety circuit and into the Auto fill (if you have one) have a Pro do it for you. Also, make sure you order the 120V or 24V that matched the power requirement of the Cyclegard you are removing.
  • kevinjames79kevinjames79 Posts: 42Member
    Current cyclegard is 120V so i will order Safgard with 120V
  • kevinjames79kevinjames79 Posts: 42Member
    Going back to my original problem, other than the uplifting of my room radiator, is there any thing else i can do?

    Is it possible that the piping is clogged for that radiator? If it is possible, any way to open it?
  • FredFred Posts: 6,960Member
    Very unlikely that the pipe is clogged. It is, however very possible that that Cyclegard shutting the burner off every 5 minutes or so is a big part of the problem. When it shuts the burner down, the steam in the system collapses and the boiler has to make more steam to fill the mains each time the burner fires again. One of the biggest reasons no one likes the Cyclegard. Steam may never have a chance to get to that radiator, especially if the rad is near or at the end of a main.
    Also, make sure your thermostat isn't getting satisfied too soon because it is located near a radiator that heats fast. If it is near a radiator, try to slow that radiator down as much as possible so the rest of the house has a chance to come up to temp.
    If you don't hear any banging or gurgling at the radiator that doesn't heat up, I think I would hold off on trying to raise it until I changed out the Cyclegard and, of course made vent adjustments for a radiator too near the thermostat.
  • kevinjames79kevinjames79 Posts: 42Member
    Ordered safgard. I will let you know how it goes once i install it.

    Funny thing. The radiator where the thermostat is, i put a tape on the vent hole. Now it takes some time to get the steam in but somehow steam still comes in. How?
  • FredFred Posts: 6,960Member

    Ordered safgard. I will let you know how it goes once i install it.



    Funny thing. The radiator where the thermostat is, i put a tape on the vent hole. Now it takes some time to get the steam in but somehow steam still comes in. How?

    There is probably enough air leaking out around the tape to allow steam in. Also, the air in that radiator can be compressed, by the incoming steam, to some degree, to still allow a few sections to heat.
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