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Viessmann 100, 200, or Bosch?

aceallenkaceallenk Posts: 2Member
Were replacing a 7 year old boiler nightmare, (HTP Munchkin MC-120 which is 120000 btu ). Our requirements are 1450 sq-ft house with air handler, indirect water heater, and 1000 sq-ft attached garage with floor heat. The present munchkin is installed in the crawl space with a space from cement cap to the floor above of 68 inches, this is between the floor joyces that are about 24 inches apart.. My question is how much room is required for a Bosch, and for a Viessmann. and is the Viessmann 100 capable of servicing my 3 heating requirements or do I need a Viessmann200. I will also add that my previous plumber 7 years ago added some black pipe to make a circle with a pump, a air handler that also has another pump, floor heat with another pump, the garage floor heat also has a mixing valve and another pump, indirect water heater with another water pump, with relay switches and water heater had priority. So before I start to contact plumbers to try and get an estimate if any will even commit to redo's now a days, WHAT IS THE BEST OPTION between these 3 boilers, or who makes the best?

Comments

  • Solid_Fuel_ManSolid_Fuel_Man Posts: 1,192Member
    You need to do/have a heatloss calculation in order to size a boiler properly. I'm gonna take a stab that a 120,000 btu boiler is at least double what you would need.

    A Viessmann 100 vs 200 is really better controls and a better turndown ratio with is beneficial. The "loop" you refer to is likely a primary/secondary setup. Post some pictures of all the piping for a distance where we can see what's going on.
    Master electrician specialising in boiler and burner controls, multiple fuel systems, radiant system controls, building controls, and universal refrigeration tech.
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,121Member
    Viessmann Vitocrossal CU3A. I love Lochinvar but this is the best boiler on the planet in my sometimes not so humble opinion.
    Steve Minnich
  • EastmanEastman Posts: 898Member
    What is notable about the Vitocrossal CU3A?
  • aceallenkaceallenk Posts: 2Member
    Thank for reply Solid Fuel. i'm going to assume 120000 btu is correct and previous plumber did his homework in that department as temperature here in Saskatchewan Canada can dip below the -40 C/F and colder plus wind chills. I'll be getting that double checked by who ever I decide in the end to replace the new boiler with, and I think my air handler is rated for that size. I guess my question would be better asked this way between the Viessmann 100 and 200 which is better quality/cost/reviews/warranty providing a person don't need the bells and whistles, then compare that to a Bosch for basically the same reasons. What i'm hoping is to find a top brand from people experience, rather than high priced advertising reviews. We all know everything breaks and can get a few poor reviews, as well as poor installation can add to some low reviews and some poor ratings. Example my Munchkin probably has 3000 poor reviews compared to a Viessmann with 18. So what I'm trying to determine is which brand is the top brand, and I have a wall basically 68 inches high to mount to. Maybe I shouldn't even be wasting my time reviewing a Viessman or Bosch, perhaps there are better condensing boilers available. From my 1/2 day of reading etc these 2 boilers kinda seem to have a fairly good rep, and trying to remain open minded I have a thumb up for Bosch from several other uses from windshield whippers to oil filters. They do seem to make good products, just know nothing of there boilers, or do I even have the room to install one..
  • lchmblchmb Posts: 2,845Member
    I've installed a number of Bosch, as well as Viessmann. I like them both. I also like the GV-90 from Weil Mclain.. biggest issue is what the installer likes to work on, and who has parts available.. best equipment in the world can break... at -40 I'd want to be able to fix it quick..
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,121Member
    @Eastman - Bullet proof HX, water content extremely high, built to last like no other mod con I’ve put hands on. You’ll never need a buffer tank or have to worry about short cycling because of the water capacity. Proven control.
    Steve Minnich
  • EastmanEastman Posts: 898Member
    That looks nice.
  • NY_RobNY_Rob Posts: 1,212Member
    edited December 6
    aceallenk said:

    i'm going to assume 120000 btu is correct and previous plumber did his homework in that department as temperature here in Saskatchewan Canada can dip below the -40 C/F and colder plus wind chills.

    FWIW- the "average" heatloss for a post WW2 2x4 construction home in the US is 15-20BTU's per sq/ft.
    Yes, you're in Canada... but you are indicating a 49 BTU per sq/ft heatloss in your house/garage! You do close your windows during the winter don't you? ;) If you remove the garage from the equation, the heatloss from the the 1450 sq-ft house is probably not more that 30K BTU's.

    I'm guessing your previous plumber did not perform a heatloss analysis and simply replaced your boiler by looking at the rating plate on the old boiler which has left you with a seriously oversized boiler.

    Slant fin has a free heat loss app that consumers can use to estimate their heatloss.... give it a try:

    https://www.slantfin.com/slantfin-heat-loss-calculator/
  • edited December 6
    I like Viessmann as well and is my go-to boiler. No experience with Bosch.
    However, I service many Munchkins here in the Bay Area and as they are starting to fail, I've been using IBC boilers as replacements, specifically their SL Series G3:

    http://www.usa.ibcboiler.com/ibc-products/sl-series-g3/

    I especially like their side connections - you can choose left or right - and they have a very easy to use user interface. AND they are made in Canada!

    Their SL 14-115G3 would be the right size for you:

    http://www.ibcboiler.com/wp-content/themes/ibc/pdf/SL-14-115-G3-Sales.pdf
    Often wrong, never in doubt.
  • Solid_Fuel_ManSolid_Fuel_Man Posts: 1,192Member
    There are a lot of Bosch boilers around here. The cast aluminum Heat Exchanger is what steers me clear of installing them. I'd go with the CU3A if you can afford it!
    Master electrician specialising in boiler and burner controls, multiple fuel systems, radiant system controls, building controls, and universal refrigeration tech.
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,121Member
    Everyone should check with their supply houses. V’s numbers iare more competitive than ever with the other big players now.
    Steve Minnich
  • gennadygennady Posts: 709Member
    I love viessmann. I would not use cu3a if there tight space or stairs. Heavy and large to move around. Also it still needs P/S if you want presize system temperature control, despite being designed for direct piping.
    For different temp zones you will need viessmann mixing valve if you want properly designed system.
    200 is the best bang for the buck. 100 is stripped version of 200, without combustion control, mixing valve connection option and limited outdoor reset and no programming. I installed few 100, it cost me more to implement full system than if I would install 200. So I stopped offering 100.
    Gennady Tsakh



    Absolute Mechanical Co. Inc.

    www.AbsoluteMechanicalCoInc.com
  • EastmanEastman Posts: 898Member
    Does Viessmann have an indoor feedback system available?
  • gennadygennady Posts: 709Member
    edited December 7
    There is.
    Gennady Tsakh



    Absolute Mechanical Co. Inc.

    www.AbsoluteMechanicalCoInc.com
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,121Member
    It’s as big as a refrigerator but lighter than a cast iron boiler.
    Steve Minnich
  • HEATthis08HEATthis08 Posts: 3Member
    Veissmann is there any other boiler,I think not!!!
  • tim smithtim smith Posts: 2,268Member
    Why is Lochinvar not in discussion, the khb (floor mount) or the WHB (wall mount). Both 10:1, the knight fire tube has been bullet proof for me over last 7 yrs. yes if multi zone you will pipe pri/sec but not big deal. Viessmann is good boiler but.....,definitely not a hands down choice.
  • Le JohnLe John Posts: 81Member
    @Steve Minnich Wow that is a big boiler!
  • GWGW Posts: 3,069Member
    Eastman said:

    Does Viessmann have an indoor feedback system available?

    we had to do somersaults to get a cu3a to work with a Vitotrol 200A. The customer is finally happy
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    www.wilsonph.com
    [email protected]
  • edited 3:40AM
    GW said:

    Eastman said:

    Does Viessmann have an indoor feedback system available?

    we had to do somersaults to get a cu3a to work with a Vitotrol 200A. The customer is finally happy
    What problems did you have? Were they learning curve problems or Viessmann problems that they had to correct? Viessmann culture can be counterintuitive.

    I believe Paul Pollets sets up a lot of his Viessmann systems with indoor and outdoor reset. Maybe he'll pipe up here.

    Often wrong, never in doubt.
  • GWGW Posts: 3,069Member
    It was just settings. It just took about 5 phone calls to get it figured out.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    www.wilsonph.com
    [email protected]
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