What would you do? Keep steam, covert to hot water or go straight HVAC?

Solid_Fuel_Man

That exposed steam main was likely all the radiation in the basement. Are there any radiators down there now?

SuperTech

@Newburgh70 . I'm assuming you from Newburgh NY. I live and work in the area and I have to let you know that I don't know and have never met a single technician in my entire twelve years in the trade that is well versed in steam heating. It's just about dead in this area. If you have a great steam guy then you are set, if you plan on keeping it I would buy the books by Dan Holohan about the lost art of steam heating.
My opinion is heat cast iron radiatiors with mod con boilers for each tenant, if possible. Please don't tear up one of the beautiful Victorian homes in our area by having duct work installed. There should be a law against it.
I just saw a house in Millbrook where they hacked out a steam boiler and installed a Burnham oil fired water boiler for two Unico systems with hydro coils. Now they have super sloppy duct board, hoses and pex decorating the basement of this historic home. Make me want to puke.

Gordy

@EzzyT has it covered

Steamhead

Gordy said:

@EzzyT has it covered

This.

EzzyT

I’m going to do an analysis of the entire system this Saturday so I’ll keep everyone posted on what I find.

Newburgh70

@Solid_Fuel_Man, Yes- I believe there are radiators down there.

@SuperTech thanks for the reply. If you read the entire thread, I think you will be satisfied with my intensions of the property.

mikeg2015

Newburgh70 said:

@Eastman I purchased it that way. I believe one of the stove inserts, like this.

Is that electric? One of those stupid electric heaters caused it?

Newburgh70

@mikeg2015 I honestly dont know. I do not believe its electric but the fire happened prior to me owning it.

Steve Minnich

If it were my building and the plaster walls and ceilings were in good condition, I’d stay with steam.
Mini-splits for AC.

Newburgh70

Money no object @Steve Minnich , I would agree. I came across this thread the other night

Its an interesting read. This was for a person who already had a steam system and was adding. I have part of a steam system that certainly needs a new boiler at the very least.

The other huge part of this equation is the labor cost to run the Mini Split AC units. The price difference is so marginal for the equipment, it would never make sense not to do the hyper heat units in addition to the AC. I have a price to do this job for all 4 units and its honestly not that bad considering you are getting heat and AC all in one.

They would look like this pic. No damage to the walls or plaster.

Steve Minnich

Not too familiar with the Fujitsu but the Mitsubishi Hyper-Heat perform as promised. I was skeptical until I put in my first 5 as the only source of heat with zero problems.

Solid_Fuel_Man

I put in the Fujitsu, they work well too. I'm not sure what kind of longevity one can expect from any compressor driven equipment though. I'm waging 10 years in reality.

Much shorter than any type of hydronic. But may still be worth the investment.

Newburgh70

Hi everyone,
I hope you all had a great weekend. I just wanted to circle back here as promised. I did end up meeting with @EzzyT on Saturday. As expected, he knew his stuff. The steam system piping is in pretty bad shape. It would need to be removed, replaced and rerouted in the basement. I am missing about 5 radiators that were stolen from the house and need a new boiler. Good chance I would need a new chimney liner as well. So here we are... Kind of what I suspected from day one. Super torn on keeping the steam system. I believe this is a real modern day dilemma many people face today.

When these homes were originally built, they obviously didn't have steam. They had fireplaces and the steam was added afterwards. It was the modern day advancement of its time and here we are 100+ years later.

I see all of your points on replacing a boiler and/or tweaking a pre existing system a bit, but this is far beyond that. I also understand the comfort the steam system would bring if running efficiently and its historical significance to the house.

Now lets talk dollars and cents.

If getting the steam system to work correctly and efficently by doing all I mentioned above would cost roughly 3/4 of what it would cost to go straight HVAC and have everyone on their own meter and zoned plus having AC, or even switching to a hydronic system, I believe this is one of those examples when people end up ripping steam out for good reason.

Now that we know the facts, curious to hear everyones thoughts again to help make a final decision. I am still brainstorming with @EzzyT but that is pretty much the moral of the story.

Gordy

It’s your wallet, not ours.

@EzzyT is more than capable of helping you with your goals, and budget. He is there we are not. That’s a big plus.

I think you are on the right path. At least you have with out question a competent person on site.

Gordy

I think you hit the nail on the head when you speak of periods of transitioning comfort technology. This to me speaks of a time for the next transition. It’s also more in line with your goals.

Please keep us posted on this transition.

Danny Scully

@Newburgh70, the pain on your wallet will be temporary. The glory of your steam system will last forever. I don’t mean to suggest seeking advice is bad, but it starts with faith. Have faith in @EzzyT. Best of luck!

Wellness

I did a similar conversion on a 6-unit building. For DHW I'd advised going to tankless for each unit, especially if you want tenants to pay individual utility bills. For the same reason, if you need cooling and heat, I'd go HVAC, even though I personally love boiler heat for quiet and even heating. If you just need heat, flip a coin and choose from among the professional recommendations here.

Newburgh70

Thanks @Gordy

Ha, @Danny Scully . To be clear, I have the utmost confidence in @EzzyT being capable and knowledgeable of completing this job. There is no doubt in my mind. He comes across as a true professional, is highly regarded on this site, and spent a lot of time with me at the house and continues to do so now. Zero complaints whatsoever.

Newburgh70

@Wellness, Thanks for your input. I hear ya! Its such a tough call. Do I absolutely "need" AC? Well, No... But it would be nice. Especially if its not too much more to add it.
If I didn't have AC, tenants would just put floor or window air conditioning units where they needed them.

The one thing I don't like about the HVAC is having to worry about those filters being clean all the time on each head.

I stayed at an Airbnb up there this weekend with my family and we were chatting with the person who owned the place we were staying in (historic mansion around the block) and they said they roast their butts off in the summer. My wife and I heard the steam clanking all day long. I spoke briefly about our dilemma trying to decide on a heating source. His uneducated advise was to go HVAC. He said he dreams of being cool in the summer.

Gordy

I think AC makes it a more desirable rental.

Relying on renters to use window shakers only adds to the wear, and tear/ destruction of windows. Do it once walk away. They hit a switch.

Newburgh70

I just asked my HVAC guy what the maintenance cost would be. He said 200-250 per housing unit, twice a year. Thats a lot
1600-2k per year for the house

Gordy

That is also a write off No?

SuperJ

Fujitsu and Mitsubishi are both top tier cold climate heat pumps. You need to be careful to get the low temp heating models. The Fujitsu's are a bit stronger heaters, they carry more BTU's longer (colder OAT) for a given size, and even though they are only rated to heat to -15F they don't actually stop even at -30F, whereas the Mits units cut out at -17F if that matters. At super cold temps it's nice to get something especially if you don't have backup electric heat.

Personally, I have a Mitsubishi FH09 in my house, but I haven't gone thru a winter with it yet, and it's secondary heat to an area of my house that gets carried by my wood stove whenever it's really cold. I would've got the floor mount KJ model but it was substantially more money that the FH09 wall mount with similar specs. I got it primarily to add AC without having to deal with my horrid 1950's ductwork.

But you can't go wrong with Mits or Fujitsu, as long as you are pretty careful to get the appropiate model. Their lineups can be confusing with seemingly overlapping models that can have major differences in especially in heating.

Also, make sure you don't oversize too much or you won't be able to take advantage of the range in modulation. They are kinda like a modcon in that respect, go too big and it'll cycle instead of purr along constantly.