Quote for new boiler

kelseyhall

Hi all,

We recently bought a house built in 1914 that has a single pipe steam system. We currently have a 150,000 BTU Utica boiler that's about 30 years old. This is our first winter with it and unfortunately don't have any experience owning a boiler.

This past Sunday we started hearing a "sizzling" noise and noticed water is dripping onto our burners. After research and talking with some local heating and cooling guys, they said the boiler is cracked and will need to be replaced. So my questions:

I know it might be hard to answer, but how long do you think the thing will last before it dies on us?
Anyone know any local contractors in or around the Detroit area that could help me out?

Located in SE Michigan. Having a hard time getting people out due to high demand during the season.

Thanks in advance

Leon82

They don't talk pricing here, but if you can post a couple pictures it may help diagnose your problem

KC_Jones

First we do not discuss pricing on this forum, so please remove that from you post.

KC_Jones

If water is coming out the boiler has a hole in it and will need replaced.

The rip off isn't the price it's the value. Finding someone that knows how steam works and how to properly pipe it is the difficult part.

First thing is them following the manual, at minimum. There is literally a picture of how it's to be piped and you can't imagine how many contractors ignore it.

If you want some assistance ask the contractor for pictures of recent steam boiler installations they have done and post them here. Heck some contractors have their work posted on a company Facebook page. Either way we can advise you if they actually know what they are doing.

If you would like to determine proper boiler sizing as a reality check against quotes we can assist with that as well. It's not too complicated.

neilc

?
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/state/MI

kelseyhall

Sorry, I missed the part about pricing. I was just curious if the ball park figure sounded right, since I have no clue.

Anyways, Can anyone recommend a contractor or point me in the right direction? I've just been googling and calling, so I don't really know their reputation or their knowledge.

Any idea how long it might last? Or does it just depends on the severity of the crack?

kelseyhall

neilc said:

?
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/state/MI

I did do a contractor search on here and they are located about an hour and a half away

Fred

If it's leaking, it likely won't last the rest of the winter without some major failure, or worse yet a dry fire and an explosion. Make double sure the Low Water cut off is working properly and, hopefully you have an automatic water feed. s long as those two things are working you won't have a dry fire. Hopefully it also has a Hartford loop on the wet return. That will help, as long as the leak isn't on the bottom of the boiler. Steam Pros seem to be hard to find in the Detroit area so be sure whoever you use that you stay on top of the installation and that they pipe it exactly like the installation manual says. Even that piping can be improved and we can help with that when you are ready. Don't pay for the job until it is done! Also, your boiler currently has side tappings for the risers to the header. Avoid that style boiler when you buy a replacement and get one that has the tappings on the top. Be doubly sure that you measure the EDR of your radiators and that the boiler is sized to that total EDR. If the installer doesn't do that, find someone else. Don't let them replace it just by getting one the same size as what you now have. That is usually too big and will have its own set of issues in operation.

ethicalpaul

> @kelseyhall said:
> ?
> https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/state/MI
>
> I did do a contractor search on here and they are located about an hour and a half away

First, hello from a former Michigander born and raised. For the 45 years I was there I think I never once saw a single residential steam system, but now I live in NJ and I have one in my house.

After just a short time on this forum, I have just one piece of advice that I can’t emphasize enough: make sure your contractor is from this forum’s list, or has work that someone here can look at and approve for you. If at all possible, get someone from here to consult regarding size and piping, even if you have to pay some travel expense.

I have seen too many people up the creek, destined to have trouble for years because their contractor knew nothing about steam but thought they did. Good luck

kelseyhall

Fred said:

If it's leaking, it likely won't last the rest of the winter without some major failure, or worse yet a dry fire and an explosion. Make double sure the Low Water cut off is working properly and, hopefully you have an automatic water feed. s long as those two things are working you won't have a dry fire. Hopefully it also has a Hartford loop on the wet return. That will help, as long as the leak isn't on the bottom of the boiler. Steam Pros seem to be hard to find in the Detroit area so be sure whoever you use that you stay on top of the installation and that they pipe it exactly like the installation manual says. Even that piping can be improved and we can help with that when you are ready. Don't pay for the job until it is done! Also, your boiler currently has side tappings for the risers to the header. Avoid that style boiler when you buy a replacement and get one that has the tappings on the top. Be doubly sure that you measure the EDR of your radiators and that the boiler is sized to that total EDR. If the installer doesn't do that, find someone else. Don't let them replace it just by getting one the same size as what you now have. That is usually too big and will have its own set of issues in operation.

I figured it wouldn't last through the winter. Thankfully, the LWCO is still working and we have an automatic water feeder that seems to be working properly- I've been keeping my eye on it like a hawk.

What are the advantages of having the top tappings vs the side tappings?

Are you particular to one boiler brand over others? We were thinking about going with another Utica boiler but we are open to options. But we will obviously get the correct size after calculating the EDR.

nicholas bonham-carter

The top tappings are more likely to produce dry steam, as opposed to wet steam, (lots of boiler water thrown up with the steam into the system).
There is an advantage to having a boiler which is distributed locally in your area, in case you need parts in a few years.
The major brands are much the same in terms of quality. The real difference is in the quality, skill, and knowledge of the installer. He must be able to read the installation manual, and follow its specifications. “I’ve been doing it this way for 30 years” will not guarantee a good job.
A local wholesaler in your area may also make some recommendations as to a qualified steam expert, but show us some pictures of his work!
The resulting installation should be quiet, even, fuel efficient, and comfortable. If this were the summer, you could do it yourself, in your own time, with a little help and advice from here.
Get cracking on the measurement of the radiator EDR, and report back here with the results for double checking. Post pictures of the radiators, with measurements.—NBC

Grallert

If you can find a competent contractor who is willing to read and follow the piping diagram and is open to educated input from yourself and this forum you should be fine. Of course that is easier said than done. A couple of things. Educate yourself by getting a few books. There are a number of books here on this sight that will be super helpful.

Erin Holohan Haskell

@kelseyhall - Check out We've Got Steam Heat: A Homeowner's Guide to Peaceful Coexistence - https://heatinghelp.com/store/detail/we-got-steam-heat

nicholas bonham-carter

Good advice-get all 3 books!!—NBC

ethicalpaul

Utica (I have one too) is based on a Dunkirk boiler they tell me here and the pros here don’t like the side ports for steam delivery from the boiler to the header but I’d love to see some evidence behind it. The steam goes up regardless...maybe there’s something about the additional direction change, I don’t know.

BobC

I think the problem is the side outlet boilers are more prone to putting out wet steam because the steam chest is effectively smaller than top outlet boilers. Because of the side outlets the near boiler piping has to be meticulous and both outlets should always be used.

Bob

ethicalpaul

Thanks @BobC !

The manufacturer offers single pipe documentation, sometimes as the primary design, with 2-pipe as an “alternate”

But that wouldn’t be the first time a manufacturer of something directed people poorly, that’s for sure.

Thanks again for the reasoning

John Mills_5

https://www.slasorheating.com/

These guys are really good but I don't know their service area or if they do steam but worth a call.