Farthest room is 3-5 degrees colder than rest of house/new boiler concerns

KC_Jones

Change one vent at a time then live with it for a few days or a week and see how it is. Little changes can make big differences. A #4 could end up being too small, or it could be perfect.

If your supplier has them Maid o most makes an adjustable kit with replaceable orifices that some have had good luck with when tuning, I don't have personal experience with them. I do have 4 extra vents in a drawer in my workshop from tuning. Lol

KK85

Lol KC_Jones having few extra vents is not a bad idea, this way you are alway prepared in case a vent malfunctions.

ChrisJ

> @KK85 said:
> I will be going to the plumbing store today to get a Gorton #4 for the thermostat room which is about 4-5 hotter than the rest of the rooms. Master bedroom have a Gorton #6 and is about 3 degrees hotter than the rest of the rooms too. Should I reduce it to a Gorton 4 or possibly 5 OR should I get an adjustable vent?
> Thanks.
>
> Insulation is definitely on my to do list (soon), however there is few issues with the longer main that need to addressed first. I think there is a sag in the middle, I need to measure the slope and figure away how to get rid of the sag. There is a small Leak at a Tee in the middle of the same line (it happened when my pressure wasn’t set correctly) now a drop of cold water comes out of it (I don’t see the drop every time I am in the basement). Should I start a new discussion for the leak in the main?

I'd change the two hotter rooms to 4s and wait. Also buy at least one 5.

Jamie Hall

1 inch is ample. Do get that sag taken care of. And the small drip -- clean all the surrounding metal very thoroughly, and then use JB Weld. Works just fine on low pressure like that.

Then. Before you think about putting TRVs on, get the main venting right and get the radiator venting balanced. Then, and only then, if you still have problems, think about TRVs.

KK85

Update:

First of all, thank you all and happy holidays.

-There was asbestos on a lot of joints in the basement, so I had a company come and remove it and paint all the pipes. I didn't want to take any chances, some of the elbows that were covered by the drop ceiling had loose asbestos.

- I insulated the near boiler piping and the long main. I didn't do the shorter main as I don't have enough clearance between the drop ceiling and the steam pipe. And I wanted to make sure the basement doesn't get cold.
- The longer main now is insulated (1" fiberglass) have a Big mouth and Gorton #1, The shorter main is uninsulated and have a Gorton #1.

- I put Maid O Mist #4 in the thermostat room and #5 in the master room. both of these rooms face south and are supplied by the shorter man.

- In my son room (coldest, furthest room that faces north) I have Gorton C on one radiator and Vari-valve opened all the way on the last radiator.

These are my results:

-Insulation is great, the longer main heats up ~45-60 second before the shorter on colds days, i guess since the boiler is on longer the pipes don't get to cool. And it heats up 60 second after the shorter main since the pipes get to cool.

-After insulation the boiler seems to looses minimal amount of water as compared to before the insulation.

-Adding support to the main, got rid of the sag and reduced the hammer noise. JB-Weld got rid of the dripping.

-Skimming and draining the boiler, eliminated the crackling noise whenever the boiler fires up and reduced the fluxing. Skimmed twice for a total of 3 hours, I plan on skimming one more time.

-Temperature in the thermostat room still varies by 1-4 degrees, at night 1-2 degrees, on sunny days 3-4 degrees. Room faces south and have 3 windows. Any ideas how to better regulate the temperature?

-I don't use setbacks, I wish nest have a cycle per hour CPH feature. To compensate for not having CPH I am using the sensor in my son's room (coldest room) as the controlling sensor, this way the boiler goes on before the temperature drops too much in this room. Does this make sense?

Thanks again for all the help and feedback. I am sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give lots of details in hopes of helping others that might be in the same situation as me.

Gsmith

If it were me, I'd get rid of the vari-valve vent, I've used them on radiators and have never been able to balance my system as long as any were on. Use a fast standard vent or a variable vent (Hoffman 1A or Ventrite 1). If the mains are vented so they get hot to the ends in aproximately the same time, then you are better off slowing down the radiators in the rooms that are hotter, instead of trying to speed up too much (over a fast standard radiator vent) the colder rooms. Just my 2 cents, but it worked on my house.

KK85

Gary Smith said:

If it were me, I'd get rid of the vari-valve vent, I've used them on radiators and have never been able to balance my system as long as any were on. Use a fast standard vent or a variable vent (Hoffman 1A or Ventrite 1). If the mains are vented so they get hot to the ends in aproximately the same time, then you are better off slowing down the radiators in the rooms that are hotter, instead of trying to speed up too much (over a fast standard radiator vent) the colder rooms. Just my 2 cents, but it worked on my house.

Thanks, is there anything slower than a Gorton #4?

ChrisJ

I'm using Gorton Cs on a few of my radiators.

But I also didn't follow the rules.

Fred

The Gorton #4 vents at .025 PSI. The Hoffman 1A vents at .020, at setting 1, little slower but they click when they open and close. Some find that offensive.

ChrisJ

> @Fred said:
> The Gorton #4 vents at .025 PSI. The Hoffman 1A vents at .020, at setting 1, little slower but they click when they open and close. Some find that offensive.

Fred what does that mean? A Hoffman 1A can be tweaked to vent almost nothing. Intact it can vent nothing.

You used pressures but didn't specify any volume at those pressures?

Fred

ChrisJ said:

> @Fred said:

> The Gorton #4 vents at .025 PSI. The Hoffman 1A vents at .020, at setting 1, little slower but they click when they open and close. Some find that offensive.



Fred what does that mean? A Hoffman 1A can be tweaked to vent almost nothing. Intact it can vent nothing.



You used pressures but didn't specify any volume at those pressures?

Sorry @ChrisJ , those numbers represent CFM at 1 ounce of pressure. My age is obviously a factor.

Gsmith

I have 7 of the Ventrite 1's about 3 yrs old and none click or make noise. But my single pipe system runs at roughly 4 oz to max 8 oz/si. Love them for balancing temps room to room.

SuperJ

KK85 said:

-Temperature in the thermostat room still varies by 1-4 degrees, at night 1-2 degrees, on sunny days 3-4 degrees. Room faces south and have 3 windows. Any ideas how to better regulate the temperature?

-I don't use setbacks, I wish nest have a cycle per hour CPH feature. To compensate for not having CPH I am using the sensor in my son's room (coldest room) as the controlling sensor, this way the boiler goes on before the temperature drops too much in this room. Does this make sense?

Thanks for posting an update, I love reading about homeowners getting some positive results.

Sounds, like you should try a different stat. I had a nest and got frustrated with it's dumb fixed differential... house always felt hot or cold. I don't like Nest's attitude, "our computer nerds are smarter than everyone, just accept our blackbox thermostat". I don't think it's actually as smart as they make it out to be. Maybe it's improved in the 3 years since I had one. The nest tended to stay off too long (to the point of feeling cold), and then run too long (until you felt hot) especially on milder days.
I went back to my old Honeywell 8000 with CPH adjustment and it was more comfortable without really cycling any more frequently. Whatever the secret sauce is behind Honeywell's CPH thermostats works really well.
My current house has a Ecobee, which thank goodness offers more tweakability than the Nest did and runs fine. I like the wireless sensors and how you can associate them with specific schedule periods. My living room gets priority in the evening, and then a bedroom sensor takes over for the night.

Even the old school round Honeywell with a properly set anticipator runs really well.

Fred

@Gary Smith , The Vent-Rites are excellent vents but at a setting of "1" that is "Off" and "2" is equal to the Gorton 4 so, unfortunately, it doesn't vent any slower.