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Caleffi quicksetter 132 Series Hot Rod

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cutter
cutter Member Posts: 292
edited October 2018 in THE MAIN WALL
I bought this type of QuickSetter because they have the return water temperature gauge built in. When I use the ring to open the flow meter bypass valve and slowly adjust the flow rate the metal ball does not move off the bottom. If I just pull the ring without doing any adjusting the metal ball just rests on at the bottom. The instructions say the metal ball will rise tho the adjusted GPM flow. Any thoughts on why that metal ball will not indicate the GPM flow?

After running this system for a week I now have a pretty good leak at the top union of one of the QuickStetters. Hopefully Supply house's SKU R50057 is the gasket I need and hopefully it is just a gasket problem. I did tighten the union really good and it still leaks. A gasket should last longer than a week. Could there be another problem other than the gasket?

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  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,573
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    I had a similar experience to JohnNY. You need to match the valve to the flow.

    The supplied gaskets are pretty fragile. I had to take one apart after a few months, it had swelled up a bit and tore when I put it back together. The are a standard union washer so not a huge deal to replace.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    JohnNY
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Zman said:

    I had a similar experience to JohnNY. You need to match the valve to the flow.

    The supplied gaskets are pretty fragile. I had to take one apart after a few months, it had swelled up a bit and tore when I put it back together. The are a standard union washer so not a huge deal to replace.

    Zman, Is there anything else up there that could be leaking. It does look like the water is coming from the top of that fitting where the gasket washer is at. I suppose it could be called a union.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,573
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    I think it is the washer.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,262
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    when the gaskets get wet they adhere to both surfaces and tear apart when disassembled. Get them wet before you install and they work well
    Some installers use thread dope on the gasket and a dab on the threads

    What flow rate are you estimating could be you have too high a hon range?
    Try a tap on the meter also if the call seems stuck
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Hot Rod, I I have not taken these apart after the install. They were tighten down once at the install and the system was filled with water maybe weeks later. Now after a week of water flowing through the QuickSetter it is leaking. Are you saying to take it apart now and dope the gasket and threads and put it back together again. Sounds risky.

    I am not really understanding your last two sentences.
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Zman said:

    I think it is the washer.

    I will order some tomorrow, sounds like I should get some spares. I should have asked Hot Rod but do you know if the one inch and 3/4 inch take the same washer. Realistically they should be different sizes. The hex nut on top of both look the same size.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,573
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    I have a stash that fits water meter unions. They also work on the 3/4" circuit setters.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,262
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    I agree, EPDM washers seem to seal better first time :) I think water meter gaskets are the correct OD to fit the QS connection, should be able to source them at wholesalers. Are the nuts tight? Sometimes you can crank them a bit after they have heated up and stop a drip. They should seal well, this same fiber gasket is used on all our union connection valves.

    If you get new green fiber ones, dry the surfaces and dab a little pipe dope on the surfaces and threads.

    All the QS take the same size washer, it is a 1" G thread connection.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Zman said:

    I have a stash that fits water meter unions. They also work on the 3/4" circuit setters.

    I was wondering if a water meter union gasket would work, I have a couple that are inch and one/eight OD but I did not want to open up that quicksetter and find they did not work and have a mess I could not fix right away. I also have a couple of 1"and a 1/4 OD water meter gaskets, they look a little large. I will open it up and use the water meter gasket. Thanks Zman
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,262
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    Be sure you don't have a misalignment or gob of solder on the face of the tailpiece.

    Honestly we send out millions of these gaskets in products we sell in 57 countries. They are used in pumps, all pumps are union body around the rest of the world :), Euro boiler connections, etc. l Euro connections are always gaskets, as they don't use tapered NPT connections.

    These gaskets are designed specifically for hydronic use, they should work when properly applied.

    Here is the spec if you want to check other options.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    hot rod said:


    I agree, EPDM washers seem to seal better first time :) I think water meter gaskets are the correct OD to fit the QS connection, should be able to source them at wholesalers. Are the nuts tight? Sometimes you can crank them a bit after they have heated up and stop a drip. They should seal well, this same fiber gasket is used on all our union connection valves.

    If you get new green fiber ones, dry the surfaces and dab a little pipe dope on the surfaces and threads.

    All the QS take the same size washer, it is a 1" G thread connection.

    Hot Rod, When that leak began I thought I had forgot to tighten that QuickSetter Union. When I put the wrench to it I found it had not been forgotten and gave it a little more but the leak did not slow down. I have a couple of water meter gaskets so I will use one of them to fix the leak. I am going to get some spares for the QuickSetters. I am wondering now about the boiler protection valve gaskets and the ones on the hydraulic separator unions.

    I have this non setting pipe dope and it appears it does not like a wet surface. I had a 1/2 pipe connection that was leaking a bit and did not drain it down completely but doped it and put a little teflon on the fitting and it leaked worse. I drained it down the next time for the last time. Thanks For Your Suggestions
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,262
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    That 1" G thread nut is used on so many of our product that I bought some Martin 37 mm wrenches to fit them, saves marking or distorting the nut with a pipe wrench.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
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    I have had good results with the Caleffi high temp silicone union supply house part number NA10302. Used them on many Homeywell union thermo mix valves with the same teal/green gasket as hot rod shows in the screen shots.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Hot Rod, I thought pipe wrenches were for pipe. I have been using adjustable metric wrenches (some people call them Cresent
    wrenches) on all the fittings with flats. In Italy they must make wrenches a little different than we do over here. One fitting would a 1 1/2" fractional but the US made fractional was too wide for the flats on the fitting so I made a few of my own. In the picture (if I get it posted) the large wrench is for the union fittings on my hydraulic separator the middle wrench is for the union hex on the boiler protection valve. The smaller wrench is for the narrow flats on the pipe threaded piece leaving the boiler protection valve. That smaller wrench is just a tad large for the union on a QuickSetter. I don't know how or why that picture got in the middle of the tent.
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,262
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    great wrenches, sometimes called flare nut wrenches with the narrow slot like that. I built some too with rebar handles
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Hot Rod, I think I will look around and see if I can find one of those 37mm wrenches. That 15" adjustable metric is a little large to use it where I need it. Maybe if I can find a 37mm wrench I will never need to use it.

    I have had good results with the Caleffi high temp silicone union supply house part number NA10302. Used them on many Homeywell union thermo mix valves with the same teal/green gasket as hot rod shows in the screen shots.

  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    I have had good results with the Caleffi high temp silicone union supply house part number NA10302. Used them on many Homeywell union thermo mix valves with the same teal/green gasket as hot rod shows in the screen shots.

    Solid_fuel_Man, are you saying supply house part number NA10302 will work in the QuickSetter? I have not done it yet but I was going to use a water meter gasket in place of the green ones.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,262
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    I went to a small local gasket supplier near me with a green gasket, he stamped out 20 EPDM while I waited, charged me 10 bucks.

    I also got some flat pieces of gasket material, sharpened a piece of tubing and pressed out some, not as pretty or accurate as pro versions, but works in a pinch. Auto supply places have assortments of gasket material, most automotive stuff works on hydronics as far as temperature and fluids compatibility
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Hot Rod, I bought some of the Fel pro gasket material at NAPA and made a gasket for the back of the boiler. That gasket was big enough that I could cut the inside diameter and outside diameter with a snips. The fel Pro gasket material is not as thick as the green ones from Caleffi. I bought the thickest material the Local NAPA had. I think I will try your method of sharpening a piece of copper pipe to cut the inside hole and see how that works. In a pinch. I still need to put that water meter gasket in, its a little thicker. I wanted to put in a couple of immersion wells when I drain down, but maybe I will do that later. Thanks again
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
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    I dont know about the quicksetter, but that supply house part number is a Caleffi "high temp silicone" which I use in the 1" unions on honeywell mixing valves. The hot and cold ports dont have much contact and once you get a leak tightening seems to cut into the green gasket and leak worse. The red silicone ones are 100 times better! I order them for all union stuff now.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Solid Fuel Man, I should have taken your advice, I ordered some union gaskets but have not received them yet. I should have ordered your part number also being as how the OD was the same as the green Caleffi one. I will order some the next time I order from Supply house. Thanks Solid Fuel
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Hot Rod, If you are still clicking on this. I put in a new caleffi washer and it still leaks like a sieve. The old washer looks good. this new one I even coated it with a thin layer of pipe dope, still leaks. Now that I have had it apart I am going to use the washer/gasket from a water meter, that should compress some if the surface of both pieces is not flat and square.. I am wondering if the quick setter is machined flat. or is the other piece machined flat The top union is leaking and I tighten that one up first then the bottom. Did not matter still leaks like crazy. This should not be happening.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,262
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    send a pic of what you have. It would be unusual for it to be machined out of tolerance, but not impossible.

    Is it a sweat version? No solder on the gasket surface?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Hot Rod it is a sweat connection with no solder on any gasket surface. That connection was soldered on the bench. I then tightened that connection with a gasket and soldered the connection upstream. I did the same with the connection at the bottom of the quicksetter. Do you want a picture of it in the installed state or disassembled? it would be hard to see any machining mistakes. I will start wit the installed position. I think you can see the water at the top of the union. One picture has the temperature gauge out of the hole. That temperature gauge stem was all corroded so I sanded it clean. I don't see why that stem would corrode.



  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,262
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    Th right hand one/ Uppermost connection?

    Are you sure that gauge well is not leaking, they are put into the tailpiece with locktite.

    Is there a plastic check valve inside the tailpiece? If so, did you remove it before soldering?j
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Yes Hot Rod right hand, upper most connection.

    The gauge from that well had corrosion on it but I do not see any water coming from the well. I just pulled it out and checked, dry as a bone.

    We had a little discussion on that check valve previously, and you said it was not necessary. So none of the quicksetters have that plastic check valve in them. I think it is next to impossible to remove that check without wrecking it if it is seated all the way. If I remember correctly that check valve would be in the inlet end of the quicksetter.

    I may have exaggerated on the leakage, but the new washer/gasket did not slow anything down. None of the others leak at all.
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,468
    edited October 2018
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    A little bit of silicone grease on the gasket makes the medicine go down.
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Homer,I should not have too do that, it should not leak with just the washer/gasket supplied by Caleffi. I should not have to cut special gaskets as suggested before, use silicone or pipe dope or anything else on the fitting. Or even the rubber water meter gasket. I have not used the water meter gasket yet.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,262
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    So you have 6 gaskets connections and only one has a persistent leak?

    I have seen a few where the well thread leaks, take a Kleenex and track down the leak path.

    Usually a gasket drip is not that tough to seal.

    The well is a straight tread and seals with an o-ring. I think we Loctite them now also, I'll check.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • cutter
    cutter Member Posts: 292
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    Hot Rod, I have found the leak. I had to use a mirror to see the back side of the fitting. The leak is not the gasket. It is a solder joint that I did on the bench and felt confident about. I felt I got it hot enough to solder without damaging the well joint. I did not know how that well was put in and thought I might damage it if it got too hot, but looks like I did not get it quite hot enough. Sorry for any accusations on your company's product.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,262
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    cutter said:

    Hot Rod, I have found the leak. I had to use a mirror to see the back side of the fitting. The leak is not the gasket. It is a solder joint that I did on the bench and felt confident about. I felt I got it hot enough to solder without damaging the well joint. I did not know how that well was put in and thought I might damage it if it got too hot, but looks like I did not get it quite hot enough. Sorry for any accusations on your company's product.

    Just glad you tracked it down. The small seep type leaks are sometimes hard to pinpoint.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,865
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    I'm sorry it's way off topic but when I see Caleffi, I cant help being reminded of my fearless leader and his mid stupor tweet, Covfefe.
    He couldn't type ANYTHING else but that !?