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Is this a steam system?

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EYoder
EYoder Member Posts: 60
Had a customer email these pictures. Wants to tie into an outdoor wood boiler. 95% of my work is tieing into forced air here in VA so I rarely bump into steam boilers.
Is this a steam system?
Thanks for your help.

Comments

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,767
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    EYoder said:

    Had a customer email these pictures. Wants to tie into an outdoor wood boiler. 95% of my work is tieing into forced air here in VA so I rarely bump into steam boilers.

    Is this a steam system?

    Thanks for your help.

    If it is, it's piped horribly.

    I'm curious how you plan on piping in an outdoor wood hot water boiler into a steam system?

    Do they make outdoor steam boilers that burn wood?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,415
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    I hope not. More likely a gravity hot water system...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,074
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    I thought gravity also. But the way I see it, the "header" is tied into the "equalizer" which goes into the bottom of the boiler.
    Also looks to be a condensate pump? on blocks with an accumulator tank feeding it?? (Blocks because of a wet basement?)

    A picture of the front might show a sight glass and other steam trim.
    Canuckerdelta T
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,544
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    Yes, it's a steam boiler. The accumulator tank was probably added to try to make up for water that used to be in the previous boiler. It's a jerky thing to do, but was in vogue for a while in the '80s.

    The outdoor wood boiler is hot-water, yes? I don't see how that could work.
    Retired and loving it.
  • EYoder
    EYoder Member Posts: 60
    edited September 2018
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    If it's steam the outdoor wood boiler is not an option for this boiler.
    We could put coils in his heat pumps, it would take a lot more piping, but it's doable.
    Thanks guys.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,767
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    Yes, it's a steam boiler. The accumulator tank was probably added to try to make up for water that used to be in the previous boiler. It's a jerky thing to do, but was in vogue for a while in the '80s.

    The outdoor wood boiler is hot-water, yes? I don't see how that could work.

    So,

    Someone with a mullet that didn't know what they were doing installed that?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,544
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    Thanks for stopping by.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,885
    edited September 2018
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    @EYoder , what part of VA?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • EYoder
    EYoder Member Posts: 60
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    Somewhere east of Fredericksburg out on the coast. Way too far east for me to install from Floyd, our dealer from Monterey VA might tackle it. We don't have a dealer that far east.
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 1,154
    edited September 2018
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    ChrisJ said:

    EYoder said:

    Had a customer email these pictures. Wants to tie into an outdoor wood boiler. 95% of my work is tieing into forced air here in VA so I rarely bump into steam boilers.

    Is this a steam system?

    Thanks for your help.

    If it is, it's piped horribly.

    I'm curious how you plan on piping in an outdoor wood hot water boiler into a steam system?

    Do they make outdoor steam boilers that burn wood?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    No thank god, they do not build forest eaters that make steam, they being the forest eater people have b*&%%^&*dized how solid fuel boilers should be made and one builder also decided to make his own "fire triangle" discussing combustion and how much better his boilers were built than anyone elses boilers on the market.
    I will have to check youtube and see if that guys video is still there to gove everyone a good laugh.


    Is it just me seeing the picture or does that large top elbow elbow that is attached to the pipe draining to the boiler sump coming off the header pipe appears to have an automatic air vent tapped into it?

    ======================================================
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 1,154
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    EYoder said:

    Somewhere east of Fredericksburg out on the coast. Way too far east for me to install from Floyd, our dealer from Monterey VA might tackle it. We don't have a dealer that far east.

    ======================================================
    Sell them an EFM DF520 coal stoker boiler from EFM heating to make steam they will save money and it will be 95% less work for the home owners than a forest eater.

    They can eliminate the gas burner and make all the Domestic Hot Water they need at 5 Gallons Per Minute.

    They will not have to run PEX all PEX tubing at $15.00 a foot from the outside to the inside either.

    They can burn Anthracite Rice Coal and Bituminous Rice Coal in this underfed coal stoker boiler and also make lots of steam.
    The Cost of Bituminous Soft Coal is 75-85% less per ton than
    anthracite coal in 22-30 ton loads.

  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 1,154
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    Yes, it's a steam boiler. The accumulator tank was probably added to try to make up for water that used to be in the previous boiler. It's a jerky thing to do, but was in vogue for a while in the '80s.

    The outdoor wood boiler is hot-water, yes? I don't see how that could work.

    =======================================================

    Hello Dan,

    A forest eater could work but they would need to have a heat titanium water to water exchanger and a tiny circulator to push the boiler sump water through the titanium heat exchanger to prevent flooding the steam boiler.

    Most forest eaters still have an open to atmospere boiler water chest and require adding back water to replace the boiler water that is steamed off through the water filler plug when idling.

  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,544
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    Thanks, @leonz . That forest eater won't make steam, though. Or will it?
    Retired and loving it.
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 1,154
    edited September 2018
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    Thanks, @leonz . That forest eater won't make steam, though. Or will it?

    ======================================================

    Hello Dan,

    Good morning to you.

    NO thank god, forest eaters do not make steam other than the steam that comes off the vent pipe on the ones that are still open to atmosphere.

    They have been making forest eaters with sealed pressure vessels
    (insert groan and death roll here) out of stainless steel and I can do is shake my head as they spend more time idling than making hot water and they still smoke too much anyway.

    Several of these builder make a secondary burn chamber in these boilers that is on top of the boilers water chest with multiple flue gas paths that are filled with water to pull more heat out of them.

    They have no desire to make an outdoor boiler with a high water volume with a smaller firebox that batch burns at a high temperature with a primary and secondary combustion chamber being the afterburner with a much much larger hot water storage capacity to allow the boiler to burn more efficiently and create less smoke.

    The only boiler builders that make a hot water boiler with high water volume that is open to atmosphere are the Garn Company and Gary Switzer.

    The three very large water volume unpressurized Garn units have a small firebox with ceramic lined firebox parts in the combustion chamber and induced draft combustion and they require dry wood -20% moisture to burn properly and the water vessel surrounds the firebox with a 3 pass heat exchanger.
    These unpressurised Garn boilers require a very large garage area to house and it need to be insulated to hold the heat in as the water vessel is round and open to atmosphere through its man hole access point.

    The large water volume pressurized vessel wood burning units made by Gary Switzer and his son in law have small fireboxes induced draft and a three pass heat exchanger and must be installed indoors and should be insulated to hold in the heat as well.



    In my case I improved my hand fed coal boilers efficiency by filling the fire box half full with full firebrick cutting the firebox volume in half and filling it to the boiler flue breech with the firebrick reducing the fire box size to 12" by 12" by 36".

    The Finnish or Russian stone stoves have multiple horizontal passages for the smoke to pass through and heat the stone mass of the stove and they burn much less wood with less smoke.
    At the end of each smoke passage there is a clean out door for any ashes that accumulate along the way and they make a lot of heat.

    About my old hand fed boiler:

    I purchased a scrap piece of 12" by 12" by 2" inch channel iron and laid it on the shaker grate mounting frame and then laid the fire brick on top of it until the fire box was filled to the flue breech.

    I had a 3 foot chimney extension added several years ago making the chimney 19 feet tall and that made a huge difference on how the hand fired wood and coal boiler burned with much less smoke as the chimney extension with the spark arrestor and rain cap was tall enough to rise above the peak of the metal roof on the main part of the house.

    The natural draft through the coal grates was much better and the overfire draft was much more efficient as well.

    The mass of fire brick soaks up all the heat made by the coal and wood I burned burn much hotter and I had much less smoke when idling and the coal burned much better with fewer clinkers and finer coal ash.

    The Gentleman that used to make the Evergreen and Bossman outdoor wood and coal boilers in Michigan knew how to make boilers using thick steel boiler plate, lots of fire brick and coal shaker grates.

    The existing forest eater makers make a lot of efficiency claims that do not hold water and I always used fall out of my chair reading them, I stopped reading them to avoid getting bruised up anymore.
    These same folks bring their boilers to Europe to exhibit them in Europe at the big trade shows and needless to say many visitors who are plumbers and fitters see them and just shake their heads and walk away when they see them and open the fireboxes to see the massive expanse of unlined firebox and the corrugated boiler vessel walls made from stainless steel.

  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,544
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    Thanks for the education, as always!
    Retired and loving it.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,885
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    ChrisJ said:

    Yes, it's a steam boiler. The accumulator tank was probably added to try to make up for water that used to be in the previous boiler. It's a jerky thing to do, but was in vogue for a while in the '80s.

    The outdoor wood boiler is hot-water, yes? I don't see how that could work.

    So,

    Someone with a mullet that didn't know what they were doing installed that?
    The nightmare returns..............

    http://www.mulletjunky.com/

    >:)>:)>:)
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    ChrisJ