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possible pin hole

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Snowmelt
Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
had a new customer call me up and said he has leaks in his indirect water heater do to the water being to acidy, is that what Sentinel does or do I have to look at other options ?

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  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,433
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    The domestic water is too acid? Or is the boiler water too acid? If it's the boiler, test it and see what the pH really is. If it is too low, there are a variety of treatments which will work. If it is the domestic water which is too acid (again, test for pH) -- say anything much less than 5.5 or so -- they will have to go to a neutralizing system. Again, there are several companies which make these things, but they are basically just a tank -- like a water softener -- which has marble or dolomite or a mix of chips in it to neutralize the acid.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    I am going to assume its the boiler water, although I think there on a well system. what about the NUVO h2o
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
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    That makes no sense-- had a new customer call me up and said he has leaks in his indirect water heater do to the water being to acidy,

    1 how does the customer know this?

    2 how old is the indirect?

    3 what is the indirect? SS??

    4 is it under warranty?

    5 if their water has been tested and it is too acidic they need water treatment

    for example superstor has this in their manual

    D. WATER CHEMISTRY REQUIREMENTS
    Chemical imbalance of the water supply may affect efficiency and cause severe damage to the water heater and associated equipment.
    HTP recommends having water quality professionally analyzed to determine whether it is necessary to install a water softener. It is
    important that the water chemistry on both the domestic hot water and central heating sides are checked before installing the water heater, as water quality will affect the reliability of the system. Failure of a water heater due to lime scale build-up, low pH, or other chemical imbalance IS NOT covered by the warranty.
    Operating temperatures above 135oF will further accelerate the build-up of lime scale and may shorten the service life of the water heater. Failure of the water heater due to lime scale build-up on the heating surface, low pH, or other chemical imbalance IS NOT covered by the warranty.
    Outlined below are water quality parameters which need to be met in order for the system to operate efficiently for many years.
    Water Hardness
    Water hardness is mainly due to the presence of calcium and magnesium salts dissolved in water. The concentration of these salts is expressed in mg/L, ppm, or grains per gallon as a measure of relative water hardness. Grains per gallon is the common reference measurement used in the U.S. water heater industry. Hardness expressed as mg/L or ppm may be divided by 17.1 to convert to grains per gallon. Water may be classified as very soft, slightly hard, moderately hard, or hard based on its hardness number. The minerals in the water precipitate out as the water is heated and cause accelerated lime scale accumulation on a heat transfer surface. This lime
    scale build-up may result in premature failure of the water heater. Operating temperatures above 135o
    F will further accelerate the buildup
    of lime scale and may shorten the service life of the water heater.
    Water that is classified as hard and very hard must be softened to avoid water heater failure.
    CLASSIFICATION MG/L OR PPM GRAINS/GAL
    Soft 0 – 17.1 0 - 1
    Slightly Hard 17.1 – 60 1 – 3.5
    Moderately Hard 60 – 120 3.5 – 7.0
    Hard 120 – 180 7.0 – 10.5
    Very Hard 180 and over 10.5 and over
    If the hardness of the water exceeds the maximum level of 7 grains per gallon, water should be softened to a hardness level no lower than 5 grains per gallon. Water softened as low as 0 to 1 grain per gallon may be under-saturated with respect to calcium carbonate, resulting in water that is aggressive and corrosive. pH of Water pH is a measure of relative acidity, neutrality or alkalinity. Dissolved minerals and gases affect water pH. The pH scale ranges from 0 to 14. Water with a pH of 7 is considered neutral. Water with a pH lower than 7 is considered acidic. Water pH higher than 7 is considered alkaline. A neutral pH (around 7) is desirable for most potable water applications. Corrosion damage and tank failures resulting from water pH levels of lower than 6 or higher than 8 ARE NOT covered by the warranty. The ideal pH range for water used in a water heater is 7.2 to 7.8.
    Total Dissolved Solids
    Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) is a measurement of all minerals and solids dissolved in a water sample. The concentration of total
    dissolved solids is usually expressed in parts per million (ppm)
    Water with a high TDS concentration will greatly accelerate lime and scale formation in the hot water system. Most high TDS
    concentrations precipitate out of the water when heated. This can generate a scale accumulation that will greatly reduce the service life of a water heater.
    The manufacturer of the water heater has no control over water quality, especially TDS levels in your system. Total dissolved solids in excess of 2,000 ppm will accelerate lime and scale formation on the element or heat exchanger. Water heater failure due to total dissolved solids in excess of 2,000 ppm is a non-warrantable condition. Failure of a water heater due to lime scale build up IS NOT covered by the warranty.

    allowable levels
    Hardness: 7 grains
    Chloride levels: 100 ppm
    pH levels: 6-8
    TDS: 2000 ppm
    Sodium: 20 mGL
    GroundUp
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    im going there tomorrow , he tells me he shuts the boiler down because of leaks
  • ch4man
    ch4man Member Posts: 296
    edited September 2018
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    theres a pretty big pressure differential between boiler water and potable water.

    anytime ive ran across an indirect with a leaky heat-x the boiler relief is running water out pretty good rate.

    hard to believe boiler water is affecting potable water chemistry
    GBart
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    Ok, I went to this house today, old boiler, but where the flange met the black pipe, it had a pin whole, also the expansion tank was waterlogged so it was coming from two places.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,433
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    Snowmelt said:

    Ok, I went to this house today, old boiler, but where the flange met the black pipe, it had a pin whole, also the expansion tank was waterlogged so it was coming from two places.

    That is not a water quality problem... possible electrolytic corrosion at that joint, but that isn't water quality related.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    Yea I know it looked like very old school because the plumber put little air bleeders on every zone. No air separator.



  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
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    That tank is about to snap off. It should be installed vertically when replaced.
    Steve Minnich
    Rich_49
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    Yea I know I told the homeowner he needs the chimney cleaned and inspected