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Is it important to adjust gas burner flame at different seasons ?

Roohollah
Roohollah Member Posts: 134
Dear Friends,

I hope that summer days are as joyful as before over there and relish the life to fullest , as always .

I always keep the boiler rooms ' burners flames suitable with the boilers out puts according to the seasons . I do this practice to save energy and decrease short cycling process . Recently, I have been maintaining a boiler room in which it has a big floor standing cast - Iron boiler , and its Gas burner is one stage burner . The burner was adjusted with winter season output ,and now I have noticed this long flame may consume more and it causes short cycling .

Now, I would like to ask this approach that how efficient the practice of adjusting output of the burner with season's heating demands ( heating and domestic hot water ) . Thank you in advance for your time and support .

Also, I do appreciate you all for sharing your thoughts and experience with us ,



I look forward to hearing ,


Best Regards,

Roohollah ,

Comments

  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,447
    Roohalla,

    It is common to see a slight difference in combustion analysis results as the air temperature of the combustion air changes. It usually does not vary enough to warrant seasonal adjustments. It looks as though the system pictured is pulling air from or through the interior space, so it seems unlikely that outdoor air temp is much of a factor.

    I wonder if something else in the system is causing your visibly noticeable seasonal fluctuations. If it is a gas boiler (yours looks like oil), it could be a fluctuation in supply pressure.

    I would take a careful look at the amount of combustion air available to the boiler. Observe the flame with all the doors closed as they are in the winter and compare those observations to all the doors open as is often the case in the summer. How big is the combustion air intake to the boiler room? What size is the boiler?

    I always smile when I see your posts. In these politically crazy times, you are a nice reminder that people are people no matter where you live.

    Carl
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    GBartRoohollah
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 19,282
    What has happened here in the US is the gas suppliers change the fuel blend from time to time, then all the equipment needs to be re-calibrated. You might see a boiler with a bunch of different colored stickers indicating that it was adjusted to the new, typically lower energy content fuel.

    I wonder that they don't "step on" the fuel in your area also, maybe without notification?

    Problems will go away when you start importing US produced LNG :) Or not.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    GBartRoohollah
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,454
    Combustion numbers constantly vary, air temperature and density and fuel composition change. It's best to leave a little fudge factor in burner adjustments to account for this. efficiency may suffer very slightly but it is better that than sooting up a boiler. Adjust for maximum efficiency and then add additional air to drop your Co2 1 percent or so to keep things clean
    RoohollahChrisF80
  • Roohollah
    Roohollah Member Posts: 134
    Dear Friends ,

    Thank you profusely for enlightening me about the essential criteria which guide me to do the job better.

    The mentioned burner is working with natural city Gas and it takes air from its space ( boiler room ) . AS the picture may show , the insulation of the boiler and the piping increase the temperature of the boiler room ambient roughly I would say that it could be 35 to 38 degrees Celsius . The heating capacity of the boiler is 280000 KCAL per hour .

    As for the boiler room enclosure, its door has constant intake fresh air from out side because of apertures ,and the window is open during the summer and half close during winter as I have noticed .

    To be honest , Gas supplier never announces about the fuel blend . We practically adjust the burner according to colour of combustion and flu gas scent . As our friend said , a little extra air and no residual combustion in the furnace .

    As for importing from there, There are a few American products such as Circulators , valves from Taco, Bell&Gosset which are still working after four decades . They are master peace and I wish I would witness to see such products in our markets again .

    I hope that I could cover your questions clearly ,and I am at your disposal for further explanation .


    Once more, Thank you for your time and cordial support ,


    Sincerely,

    Roohollah,
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,454
    @Roohollah ,

    do you have a fuel gas combustion analyzer??
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,447
    I would suggest verifying that the flame stays the same with doors and windows open vs closed. I would also pay attention to the gas pressure when you check the boiler. If the seasonal difference is not related to available combustion air or fluctuations in supplied gas pressure, it probably is related to the energy content of the supplied gas.

    I am sure you have great feel for setting combustion by the appearance of the flame. If it is at all possible to obtain a combustion analyzer, that is the best way to tell what is going on.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    Roohollah
  • Leonard
    Leonard Member Posts: 903
    edited July 2018
    Here in the northeast USA, the cross country nat gas supply lines are too small to meet peak winter demand on cold days. So gas company adds propane and air to suplement nat gas in their city lines, when consumer demand exceeds pipeline flow rate capacity..

    But I'm told by law they must maintain the energy content, think it's 1000 BTU/cubic foot. Nat gas flame burns bit yellow in winter because of this.

    In some citys gas pressure drops a bit in winter because of high demand, sounds like mostly because low pressure street lines have not been upsized as new customers come on line. ( get pressure drop when demand flow is high).
    Roohollah
  • Roohollah
    Roohollah Member Posts: 134
    Dear Friends,

    it is so great to sharpen my skill by keep learning the valuable lessons that are being shared at Heating Help . To me every post , pictures the laws of combustion vividly ,and as our said the combustion analyzer would be a great help to see what is going on inside the boiler . Unfortunately, this tool is so expensive and mostly I have seen it in hands of fire fighters and some other governmental organizations . But. that is true to analyzes the combustion by its flu gas .

    Here, the pressure of Nat Gas pipe hardly ever drops due to importance of Capital demand . but, If it happens , I have to decrease the Gas pressure adjustment and keep the flame short enough to work normally .

    This type of Gas Burner really works great . Its name is Ray International and except for the body , the rest of instruments are made in Germany DUNGS brand . I adore this brand ,but it four times as expensive as our domestic burners .

    As I perused the posts , I see that air temperature of the burner's intake and pressure of Nat Gas are so vital and more importantly flu gas contents such as CO2 must be measured to achieve better efficiency of the combustion .

    Also, I would like to ask you that whether the air temp of intake burner is defined by any organizations ? If yes , would you please share it ?

    Once more, Thank you in advance for all the posts and support,



    Sincerely,

    Roohollah,


  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,454
    edited July 2018
    As the air temperature drops the air becomes more dense and as I understand it the colder the air the more air the fan will move assuming the air damper setting is unchanged. The temperature of the air is not regulated by any code as far as I know. Wondering if that Ray burner is made by the old Ray Burner Company in California, San Francisco I believe

    Maybe you can find and old "wet Kit" combustion analyzer on e-bay. Not as good as the electronic but better than nothing
    Roohollah
  • Roohollah
    Roohollah Member Posts: 134
    My profuse thanks always goes to you all for delineating all the concerns I have encountered during the work . That is why here is the only place I will learn more and more .

    As the burner manufacturer , I would say that Ray company has cooperated with Iranian company to produce the Ray products in here . This is as far as I know , and I met them at heating exhibition in Iran .

    But, as you know , this type of burner dates back to 80s decade ,and they are not comparable with the one which are on your markets today . I have attached a photo of oil burner which is antique now and I keep it as a souvenir .


    Thank you for all your helpful posts and solutions .


    Sincerely,

    Roohollah


  • Roohollah
    Roohollah Member Posts: 134
    Dear EBEBRATT-Ed ,

    You are completely right , Ray international founded in San Francisco in 1872 by William Ray. The German manufacture covers the products in Iran .

    Thank you ,

    Roohollah