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Boiler choices and sizing.

OldranchOldranch Member Posts: 7
Boiler choices

House is 1950's build, open floor plan. Half brick, low pitch roof with no attic. 2/3rds crawl space and 1/3 slab. All windows replaced 2016 – double pane low E, high quality vinyl. New roof (2017) w/1-1/2” insulation board (this really tightened up the house).

132' of BaseRay cast iron base board radiators. These seem smaller than the 9A model, only about 6-3/4” tall. One BaseRay slenderized radiator 5 tube, 1-3/4”ctc, 25” tall with 14 sections in kitchen and one BaseRay slenderized radiator 6 tube, 1-3/4”ctc, 32 tall with 6 sections in the utility room.

Currently have a 25-some year old Lochinvar RBN 135. I don't know what the Lochinvar replaced but I remember it had to broken up into pieces (gigantic cast iron) to get it out of the utility room.

My own boiler sizing by the radiation method says I need about 55.5MBH.
The Slantfin contractor by manual J method says I need 53982MBH.
The Weil-Mclain contractor says by manual J (different software, I asked) that I need 57556.

I believe both of them. Pricing is similar for both.

Which boiler will be the most reliable for the next 10 years?

Gas fired, chimney vented SlantFin Sentry S-90?
Or
Gas fired, chimney vented Weil-Mclain Cga4?

Comments

  • NY_RobNY_Rob Member Posts: 1,073
    edited June 11
    Why not consider a mod-con like the HTP UFT-80W?

    It would be a great match with all the cast iron radiation you have. You'd probably condense most of the year at 90% + efficiency due to all the mass in your system.
  • OldranchOldranch Member Posts: 7
    Boiler choices

    House is 1950's build, open floor plan. Half brick, low pitch roof with no attic. 2/3rds crawl space and 1/3 slab. All windows replaced 2016 – double pane low E, high quality vinyl. New roof (2017) w/1-1/2” insulation board (this really tightened up the house).

    132' of BaseRay cast iron base board radiators. These seem smaller than the 9A model, only about 6-3/4” tall. One BaseRay slenderized radiator 5 tube, 1-3/4”ctc, 25” tall with 14 sections in kitchen and one BaseRay slenderized radiator 6 tube, 1-3/4”ctc, 32 tall with 6 sections in the utility room.

    Currently have a 25-some year old Lochinvar RBN 135. I don't know what the Lochinvar replaced but I remember it had to broken up into pieces (gigantic cast iron) to get it out of the utility room.

    My own boiler sizing by the radiation method says I need about 55.5MBH.
    The Slantfin contractor by manual J method says I need 53982MBH.
    The Weil-Mclain contractor says by manual J (different software, I asked) that I need 57556.

    I believe both of them. Pricing is similar for both.

    Which boiler will be the most reliable for the next 10 years?

    Gas fired, chimney vented SlantFin Sentry S-90?
    Or
    Gas fired, chimney vented Weil-Mclain Cga4?
  • OldranchOldranch Member Posts: 7
    I guess I'm not too keen on cutting holes in my roof for the air and exhaust pipes. Also, it seems like you get a longer warranty with a conventional cast iron boiler.
  • NY_RobNY_Rob Member Posts: 1,073
    edited June 11
    10 yr warranty on the HTP UFT boiler.

    Lochinvar also offers an excellent series of mod-con boilers with additional feature over the bare bones HTP UFT series.

    Most side vent their mod-cons with inexpensive PVC, but you can get a chimney kit to exhaust through your existing chimney if you'd like. You can also use indoors air vs. outdoor air for intake/combustion if you don't want a 2" or 3" hole in your wall.

    Did your contractor mention that your present chimney would need a ($1k) liner if you replace your current boiler? Many areas require that nowadays on boiler replacements.
  • OldranchOldranch Member Posts: 7
    You know what, neither contractor mentioned or priced a chimney liner. What is the reason for lining it if the current boiler is exhausting properly out of the chimney?

    I think through the wall is a no-go because the boiler and water heater are in just about the center of the house. Nearly flat roof w/no attic access.
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 12,118
    I agree, in your situation chimney vent is the way to go. Either of those boilers should be fine. If that were my job, I'd also look at the Burnham 304- it has a nicer control system.

    If there's any way to add insulation under the roof, you could probably get away with the next size smaller boiler.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 3,991
    @Oldranch
    I like the Weil Mclain but that's just me. You could use the chimney for a chase for the mod con flue and intake if you go that route.

    1950s the flue probably has a clay liner. If it's an interior chimney in good condition you may not need a liner unless the chimney is oversized for the new boiler (which it could be oversized) newer equipment has higher efficiency and runs with a lower flue temp which may require a liner to prevent flue gas condensation. You contractor should know this. If not, find a certified chimney sweep to do the liner after the boiler size is picked
  • newagedawnnewagedawn Member Posts: 549
    peerless makes a nice gas boiler
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
  • Stephen MinnichStephen Minnich Member Posts: 2,011
    Buderus cast iron is really good. I'm also a big fan of Burnham and Peerless.

  • OldranchOldranch Member Posts: 7
    1950s the flue probably has a clay liner. If it's an interior chimney in good condition you may not need a liner

    Yes the chimney is interior and has orange tile sections that are all intact. The brick portion on the roof was tuck pointed and had a new concrete cap about 6-7 years ago.

    So I gather from everyone's comments that most of the well known boiler companies put out a decent product.

    As to sizing, can anyone comment on the models I've gotten pricing on so far? OK or maybe too big.
  • HVACNUTHVACNUT Member Posts: 1,226
    edited June 14
    Look into the EK Frontier and Resolute. The Resolute is 90+% non condensing. Sleeve a polypropylene liner through the existing chimney. It does require outside combustion air so maybe you can cut out a bay space for 2" PVC.
    The Frontier can use your existing chimney, but if it was me, I'd install a liner.
  • delta Tdelta T Member Posts: 612
    Out of the two you proposed I would choose the WM. Really it comes down to the contractor, and what kind of installation you are getting. You actually got two different contractors to do a real heat loss! Congrats, it is all to rare these days!
  • OldranchOldranch Member Posts: 7
    Still getting estimates and many different choices of boiler. How about opinions on a Carrier BWB cast iron boiler as a replacement?
  • HVACNUTHVACNUT Member Posts: 1,226
    I believe for boilers, Carrier is a rebadged Dunkirk.
    IMO, there's better choices.
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 12,118
    HVACNUT said:

    I believe for boilers, Carrier is a rebadged Dunkirk.

    IMO, there's better choices.

    That is correct.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • OldranchOldranch Member Posts: 7
    The contractor said it is made by Utica. It is sold with a 20Y heat exchanger warranty, a 10Y parts and I'll get a 5Y labor from the contractor. This warranty package seems pretty good compared to most others. Oddly enough, another company gave an estimate for a Bryant boiler and it is the exact same model number as the Carrier. They even look nearly identical, the the Bryant quote was considerably higher though.

    The guy who quoted the Carrier also installs Weil-McClain and Burnham but said his company is a stocking distributor of the Carrier stuff so he tends to favor that. The W-M and Burnham would add 5-7% to the job total. I really like the W-M but I also want this contractor to do the job and be comfortable with what they are putting in. So if the Carrier is a really bad choice I'll go W-M and hope for the best.
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