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Triangle Tube combustion vent pipe failures

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smklin
smklin Member Posts: 69
Does anyone have any issues with their triangle tube boilers combustion vent pipe splitting open and cracking

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  • unclejohn
    unclejohn Member Posts: 1,833
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    Mine is fine. I have replace one and I believe it was leaking at the bottom. That pipe was metal and the replacement was plastic. Are you having multiple failures?
  • smklin
    smklin Member Posts: 69
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    yes I have a total of 11 boilers and the hotter the working temp the worse it gets all of them will need to be replaced within a year
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    PVC or CPVC pipe?
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • unclejohn
    unclejohn Member Posts: 1,833
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    Your talking about the vent pipe inside the boiler correct?
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    Which model? LP or Nat gas?
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,048
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    What sizes? Concentric vent?
  • smklin
    smklin Member Posts: 69
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    the boilers I have are solo 250 and solo 175
    no its not concentric vent the vent are about 5 feet till they terminate the buildings
    its natural gas
    the pipe that's cracking is the flue gas pipe inside the boiler
    and I believe its a polypropylene pipe
    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Triangle-Tube-PTRKIT116-Vent-Pipe-for-Solo-175-250-Trimax-Boilers-only
  • unclejohn
    unclejohn Member Posts: 1,833
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    This product is only compatible with boilers which have a Trimax Control.

    Vent Pipe - polypropylene (for Solo 175-250 Boilers)

    NOTE: Please do not call the manufacturer, Triangle Tube, with questions about this product. If you have questions (technical or otherwise), please call customer service at 1-888-757-4774 and a customer service representative will be happy to assist you.

    Don't get me wrong I buy from Supply House but this tells me that you should be calling TT and talking to them. If there is a real problem with their stuff they will fix it.
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    That's disconcerting... especially where we have been told/ fed that pvc is not good for venting boilers.
    There are a lot of boilers/ mfg that use PP for the first leg going out of the combustion chamber.
    What are you seeing for flue/ stack temps?
    Got any pix?
  • smklin
    smklin Member Posts: 69
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    I am dealing with triangle tube and it seams they are working with me .I am just wondering if this is a common problem.as far as supply house I don't buy from them .Was just a link to clarify what I was referring to.
  • smklin
    smklin Member Posts: 69
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    yes I have pic how do I post them
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    On the leave a comment section there is an icon above where you type.... 3rd from the right
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,573
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    The older TT's has stainless vents. They switched to poly when they introduced the Trimax model. If I remember correctly they claimed that they had had issues with something corrosive leaching from the PVC vent piping in the US market.
    Keep us posted on this one.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
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    Sounds like a major recall in the wings to me...

    ME

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    kcopp
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
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    Silly (loaded) question: Is PVC allowed as venting in other parts of the world?
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    Still like to see a picture.....
  • smklin
    smklin Member Posts: 69
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  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    edited April 2018
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    Wow, that's for sure a failure. Not sure what caused it, but it is breached...

    To the other person who asked where else PVC is allowed, anywhere that they accept the manufacturers installation instructions, including Canada. The PVC manufacturers can make any claims they want about incompatibility, but the bottom line is, it's the boiler manufacturers who carry the liability, and they have done their research and have approved it for installation with their equipment.

    I've never seen PVC fail like that.

    ME

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • smklin
    smklin Member Posts: 69
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    I talked to triangle tube and they said they suspect that it comes from over firing I went and checked the combustion on all the boilers that failed like that and not one was the oxygen level over what the book said as far as the high limit .The high and low fire was not within + or - .2 but was not that far out of range ??????
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
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    Hmmm, that looks a lot like the W-M 97+/ECO inside. That same PP base and pipe too.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    What did you do to repair it?
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,048
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    Over firing, BS, Then their flue sensor or other safeties should have shut down the boiler.
    My personal feelings on their boilers is that they do not have good safeties implemented with their boiler operation. Have seen a few dangerous issues with the boiler over the past 14 or so years.

    But I'm just a heating guy, no engineer here.
    D
    ZmanSolid_Fuel_Man
  • smklin
    smklin Member Posts: 69
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    Nothing yet I am waiting for my supplier to get me the parts .These boilers are less than 6 years old .And it seams that the hotter the design temperature the worse it gets. They drill a whole in the flue pipe and install the flue sensor there it seams they start to crack there .On the new flue pipes they install some bushing type deal there to put the flue sensor in there.
  • smklin
    smklin Member Posts: 69
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    something else I noticed that the boiler will not keep its combustion analysis if you go and fine tune it to triangle tubes spec (have called in to there tech line and set the boiler to there liking ) it will not keep the combustion for let say a few months
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,573
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    Years ago I worked with a guy we called "too tight Charlie" If a pipe needed a 1 3/8" hole, he would shove it into a 1". If a cooktop instruction said to make the opening 30 1/4", he would cram it into a 30" opening and wonder why the counter top cracked when the stove heated up. I haven't seen Charlie in years, I wonder if he went to work for Triangle Tube.

    How much are your combustion numbers wandering around? The difference in temperature of the combustion air will effect the numbers quite a bit
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    edited April 2018
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    Zman said:

    Years ago I worked with a guy we called "too tight Charlie" If a pipe needed a 1 3/8" hole, he would shove it into a 1". If a cooktop instruction said to make the opening 30 1/4", he would cram it into a 30" opening and wonder why the counter top cracked when the stove heated up. I haven't seen Charlie in years, I wonder if he went to work for Triangle Tube.

    How much are your combustion numbers wandering around? The difference in temperature of the combustion air will effect the numbers quite a bit

    And atmospheric pressure, and humidity, and solids in suspension (sheet rock dust) and, and, and,.

    In reality, the combustion analysis is only valid for THAT second in time, under THOSE operating conditions. Kind of like a stopped clock being correct 2 times per day...

    But NOT doing an analysis is more dangerous than doing one and having those conditions change in the field. DO THE ANALYSIS.

    ME

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    Zman
  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,457
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    That looks more like Polypropylene pipe. Is it?
    Rick
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,765
    edited April 2018
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    It would be good to clock meter in high and low fire, would be interesting to see if overfired. Also with water temp all the way up to max, in high fire, what is your flue temp. All of the above would be good to know. Sorry to see this, I have quite a few TTs out there. Other possibility is if there is a hole in the burner but I would think you would pickup on combustion readings.
    Tim
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,261
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    it does look like PP, not PVC?

    PP is rated to 235F. When boilers get dirty flue temperature goes up. But sensors should protect against excessive temperature
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • smklin
    smklin Member Posts: 69
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    I would say that the low fire was lower by average -.5 tents one was quit a bit more there were some of the boilers that were within + or - .2 tentswich is what tt wants they were all within range of what the book says as far as max oxygen level even the ones that were + or - .2 tents cracked .These boilers do high temp baseboard 160 degrees and domestic hot water were the boiler side of the domestic water is set at 160 degree .
  • smklin
    smklin Member Posts: 69
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    on another note these boilers never get up to 235 degrees flue temp they never go to 180
  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 2,806
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    Is the outdoor reset hooked up ?

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • smklin
    smklin Member Posts: 69
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    yes its hooked up the boilers have a max temp of 160 degree + or - a few