LAARS EBP-175 noise. Please help.

Tom_133

Have you searched for a contractor on this website in your area?

You have a bit of a mystery there. I know they replaced the external black circulator, but has anyone tested the internal circulator?

nikolay23

The contractor was already sent by LAARS. It was a local company specializing in LAARs boilers. The problem was that the 2 guys that came over weren't competent at all in my opinion. They simply had no clue what and how to troubleshoot besides bleeding the zones. They did check internal Grandfus pump and said it was spinning. I believe they unscrewed something on the side to check (like a cartridge). If that internal pump was mulfunctioning, wouldn't the unit not work at all for heat and water since it wouldn't be circulating water at all through the system when call is made for either heat or hot water?

nikolay23

Quick update. I was working with LAARS directly and they sent someone over to take another look. The person who came over knew these boilers really really well. Anti-condensing valve was malfunctioning and Grandfus circulation pump looked suspicious as well. Both were replaced, but the original problem was still there. Main Combustion Chamber was replaced last Saturday and after a quick test things look much better. Of course the real test would be when the time to put the heat on comes, but it looks promising right now.
I wanted to express my gratitude to the gentleman from LAARS who offered help at the very beginning of this thread (not sure if it is OK to mention his name here). He was very very helpful along all these months of troubleshooting and was able to get me the right person to look into, this, Big thank you to LAARS for helping covering the cost of getting this troubleshot and repaired.

Jamie Hall

I just hit this thread, and forgive me but can we back up just a moment? I seem to gather from the comments that the noise in question starts when the circulating pump starts, before the burner comes on? And that the noise seems to pulsate? To me this sounds like a classic cavitation problem at the pump. This can telegraph through the system in unpredictable ways. I would carefully review all of the piping which lies between the expansion tank and the pump (there shouldn't be much, but I haven't seen a diagram of the system) and look for any possible restriction to flow in that entire stretch of piping.

You may have 20 psi at the gauge and the expansion tank -- but you could lose that in some situations by the time you get to the pump inlet.

nikolay23

Thank you for your feedback. Well. When the whole troubleshooting started few month ago and I called the plumber the 1st thing that was replaced was regular Taco 007 pump. That didn't help and the main combustion chamber was still making boiling/pulsating noises. That pump was even isolated allowing only the Grandfus pump to move that water around and was still the same. I am not a plumber and cannot really comment on small details. I was just reporting what I observed. At this point multiple system components have been replaced to isolate the problem. From what is seems right now the main combustion chamber is no longer making boiling/pulsating noise once it was replaced. I hope that was it. I quickly ran a test on 1 heating zone and it sounded much better compared to what it was before. I still heard a little noise and was suggested to bleed all 3 zones right before the heating season 1 more time so all remaining air bubbles settle down and come out.

nicholas bonham-carter

Thank you for giving us some information on the continuing saga.—NBC

newagedawn

is that a 3/4" spirovent??? if so the basic piping configuration dictates that 3 -3/4" heat loops cannot be supplied or returned by a 3/4" main, as a 3/4" heat loop provides 40,000 btu and 3 = 120,000btu this means that these 3- 3/4 heat loops must be supplied with an 1 1/4" supply and return, ESPECIALLY when using zone valves BECAUSE YOU WILL get noises from the loops due to the friction of the valves opening and closing,sometimes they might even bang on closing, plus it must take a long, long time for all those loops to heat, why you ask??? re read the prior statements and let it sink in for a minute,also the expansion tank is not in an ideal location or the pump , also if you could stand back when you take a pic need a good view of the whole boiler and piping, thanks

Jamie Hall

Thank you, @newagedawn -- more and more I think this is a cavitation problem brought on by poor piping. I have found that, regrettably, but not surprisingly, the average plumber is a bit weak on closed circulating systems -- like a hot water system -- and what can cause cavitation.

Would it be possible for you, @nikolay23 , to draw up a complete diagram of your piping system, including pipe sizes and dimensions and all fittings and pumps? Otherwise your best bet is going to be to find someone who really understands the hydraulics of these things to go over it.

hot_rod

It sounds like perculation to me. A noise like an old tea kettle makes as it heats. Due to the scale build up inside. It could be the boiler needs to be delimed?

The 3 way mix valve is on the DHW side?

Jamie Hall

hot rod said:

It sounds like perculation to me. A noise like an old tea kettle makes as it heats. Due to the scale build up inside. It could be the boiler needs to be delimed?

The 3 way mix valve is on the DHW side?

I'd think so too -- except for that one comment where it seemed the OP said it started before the boiler fired up or did I misread that?

BrightBird

Can you share LAARS contact who arranged to have local technician trouble shoot the issue.
My last experience with local technician who came to fix my starter was not experienced and I had to pay another technician to fix the issue.

nikolay23

I spoke with one of the managers at LAARS (his name was Mark) and he referred me to technician named Peter from the company below. He was very knowledgeable and was able to resolve the problem. Lots of parts had to be replaced though. Replacing the main chamber was the fix.
Ben Franklin HVAC Inc.
2138 Derbyshire Rd.
Furlong, PA, 18925
US