Will this work

bob eck

My wife and I go to a local restaurant for breakfast on the weekends. Over the years we became friends with the owners.
As you can see in the photos the wall is brick and the tables with seats are right up against the bricks that are the outside wall.
In the winter when it I see cold outside the bricks are cold. As you sit in the seats eating your meal you are unfortable because your body heat is being drawn to the cold bricks.
I had recommended installing radiant on the brick wall to offset the cold brick wall and make their customers comfortable while eating.
The brick wall is about 3 1/2’ to 4’ high and then the rest is double wall glass to the ceiling.
If they had insulation put on the bricks and then a product like the Viega Climate Panel installed and then a finished surface would this work?
Not looking to heat the room just keep the wall warm so the customers stay happy. The restaurant is heated with gas roof top units.

Jamie Hall

Not only would it work, it would make the customers happy and not use all that much power, really. What's the margin on a donut? Bet one extra donut per customer might just about cover it...

Jamie Hall

I thought I had replied to this. Must have hit the wrong button... yes it will work. Won't even cost that much to run, and might make the folks next the window happier. Might even make them enough happier to order an extra donut, which might just about cover the running cost.

SeymourCates

@bob eck

Why go through the trouble and expense of a radiant heating system when some 1" Dow insulation will give an R value of 6.5. Compare to your current R value of the brick wall of less than 1 and you realize the problem is easily solved by preventing the heatloss.

Those that would advocate the KISS principle shouldn't advise to install a new heating system if it wasn't absolutely necessary for comfort.

the_donut

SeymourCates said:

@bob eck

Why go through the trouble and expense of a radiant heating system when some 1" Dow insulation will give an R value of 6.5. Compare to your current R value of the brick wall of less than 1 and you realize the problem is easily solved by preventing the heatloss.

Those that would advocate the KISS principle shouldn't advise to install a new heating system if it wasn't absolutely necessary for comfort.

Doesn’t cover radiative loss through window. Window will still feel cold with back against section.

SeymourCates

The current R value for the window is 3X the R value of the wall. Fix the problem precisely where it occurs and it will most likely be acceptable. The guests sit below the level of the window and won't directly feel the temperature difference at the surface of the glass. The assumption is that there are no infiltration issues with the windows.

hot_rod

Or just buy some of Mark Eatherton's radiantly heated windows.

the_donut

SeymourCates said:

The assumption is that there are no infiltration issues with the windows.

You know what they say about assuming?

the_donut

SeymourCates said:

The current R value for the window is 3X the R value of the wall. Fix the problem precisely where it occurs and it will most likely be acceptable. The guests sit below the level of the window and won't directly feel the temperature difference at the surface of the glass. The assumption is that there are no infiltration issues with the windows.

You know what they say about assuming?

nicholas bonham-carter

What about putting an inch or more of insulating board on the bricks first?—NBC

EBEBRATT-Ed

The ONLY thing that will fix this is perimeter heat insulated or not. Even baseboard will work. It's going to have to be controlled properly. Maybe outdoor air reset on the water temp. I have seen this so many times.

Did a job in Worcester many years ago. They had 1glass block wall in a conference room in an office building which was probably 3/4 of 1 outside wall. They never could use the conference room in the winter they could see their breath. Had gas roof tops. Someone had even added hot water coils in the ductwork No Good.

20' of high output baseboard fixed it. Overhead heat sucks. It's ok for hallways, foyers etc. If it's a room people sit in it won't work....they will never be comfortable

The heating contractor I worked for 20 years ago I worked in an office cubicle. Desk faced the outside wall, my feet froze. The thermostat within 4' of my desk was set on 70 and it was 70 deg. And cold air from wall was also trapped by my feet by the desk

Mark Eatherton

hot rod said:

Or just buy some of Mark Eatherton's radiantly heated windows.

Thanks for the lead in HR

www.iqradiantglass.com

ME

SuperTech

I would think insulating the brick and adding some baseboards (cast iron for best results) would take care of it. I kinda like the looks of the heated windows.

STEVEusaPA

A lot depends on how much room you have to build out. 1" foam, then a minimum of 1 1/2" metal studs, 1/2" sheathing, the finish material, plus a window sill.
Any baseboard or panel radiators would be a cleaning problem. Crud, dirt, dust, crumbs, bugs-even in the cleanest restaurant-will constantly fall into and on baseboard/panel rads.
If you have the room, I'd do 1" foam, metal studs, insulate in between, warmboard, and sturdy finish material over it (it will take a beating).
The radiant glass would be nice, but what's the operating cost/installation costs?

hot_rod

adjustable, insulated window coverings would be another option.

If the baseboard or panel rads were under the table and booth the convective warm air currents would not really get to the cold glass surface, and maybe not help much. Insulating the brick and glass would be best, and reduce energy costs.