Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.

Does this piping substitue for a pig tail

All - Had an installer tell me that the way this was piped was essentially as good as a pig tail. Does the piping to the controls and pressure gauge look O.K. or do I need to get it redone?

Thanks.
lchmb

Comments

  • Neild5
    Neild5 Member Posts: 132
    That piping setup far exceeds a pigtail, it is larger in diameter making it harder to clog and to clean it you just have to remove a couple pipe plugs.
    New England SteamWorks
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,318
    Yes, you're good to go. Nice looking job.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,422
    Did he show you the port for skimming, and also how to do it?—NBC
  • JackVinner
    JackVinner Member Posts: 8
    Thanks All good to know. NBC - He did not show how to skim the port. I was advised to blow down once a week during heating season. I've been doing that. Water gauge is a little brown but the water doesn't bounce to much.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 8,467
    @JackVinner you sir had a better than average installer who apparently knows what he is doing. He used brass fittings and installed clean out plugs!!
  • JackVinner
    JackVinner Member Posts: 8
    Thanks again, in all fairness, any instructions for skimming were provided to my resident manager so i may not be aware. How often should 1) the boiler be skimmed and 2) how often should I have the clean out pugs serviced?

    Thanks again.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,132
    IMO that beats any standard pigtail, I do that if I have more than a couple devices that need protected.
    Question for anyone though.......should the gauge have a longer nipple under it? It is sitting down in the water now.
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,422
    Skimming the boiler, after the first 2 weeks of service, should take about 6 hours. The intent is to drain off the surface of the boiler water, the oils left over from the pipe threading and cutting. Oily water has bad boiling characteristics, just like water with any additive.
    The gauge should probably be mounted higher on a taller nipple, to keep its feet out of the mud. Since the supplied 0-30 psi gauge is useless for measuring the low pressures our systems work at, it’s not so important.—NBC
  • info43
    info43 Member Posts: 51
    I love this site, so much to learn. Can anyone tell me what is the devise at the bottom of the image? Thanks in advance.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,132
    To me it looks like the top of a LWCO. The type with electric switch that is opened by a float inside. Often used as the redundant LWCO on larger systems, physically positioned lower the primary, auto resetting LWCO. This one usually would be manual reset calling attention to the problem.
  • info43
    info43 Member Posts: 51
    edited January 2018
    @JUGHNE thanks! I would have never thought it was a LWCO.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,513
    JUGHNE said:

    IMO that beats any standard pigtail, I do that if I have more than a couple devices that need protected.
    Question for anyone though.......should the gauge have a longer nipple under it? It is sitting down in the water now.

    The gauge glass is below it, behind the LWCO. It looks like the pressure gauge is well above the water level. I think it's good.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,132
    Looks like a fair sized job.....might have a boiler feed pump as the primary LWCO fill.
    Would like to see pictures of the entire install actually........
  • JackVinner
    JackVinner Member Posts: 8
    As requested Two additional pictures

  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,422
    I think the pigtail piping waterline may be pretty close to the gauge height.—NBC
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,132
    Fred, I think we mean the water in the "trap" portion of the piped pigtail is close to the gauge, so if there was any sludge it could get into the gauge.

    Info43, I was wrong about the type of LWCO, this looks to be the burner cut off switch with the auto filler attached.
    It will add water on the first "click" and with water continuing to drop will cut the burner out with the second "click". Probably not manual reset. You blow down with burner on, this flushes the bowl, adds water and the burner shuts down. Restarts once the water comes back up....usually within seconds.

    Would that KO with the fiberglass showing have the plug for the skim port. If so now would be a good time to remove it for a nipple and valve install. The threads will age pretty fast.
    info43
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,513
    @JUGHNE , Got it!
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,132
    Is there any piping on the right hand side of the boiler? Might be a skim valve/port there.
    Skimming is needed after the first week of operation, gets rid of oil floating on the top of the water. Maybe several times as needed.

    The little plugs in all the cross fittings are very handy.
    I would open them every year and check with a long brush for any sludge. If any sludge under the controls I would remove the controls and peek at their inlet. After that if the brass piping is clean I would assume the controls are clean also. You need to prime that "brass trap" each time. The cushion of water will protect the components from the steam.

    Of course the LWCO should be blown down every day for the first week. Then weekly there after, while the burner is on, checking that it shut down the burner each time.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 8,467
    @info43 that low water cutoff is a McDonnell Miller #51 combination water feeder/low water cutoff.

    @JUGHNE some gages say "internal sylphon" on them and don't need a pigtail. Does it matter if the gage is "in the water"? To me, even if you put a pigtail under a pressure control or gage there always in the water. The water seal protects the control or gage.
    Either way, don't know if it matters. :)
    info43
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 2,623
    This is one of those rare occasions where also being a plumber skews the perspective of a boiler/heating tech. What's been created there is a trap instead of pigtails.
    A trap seal is maintained from its inlet until the point of the trap's *crown weir* which communicates directly to a vent along the trap's *crown*. The height of the trap seal extends from the *dip* to the crown weir. At atmospheric pressure, this gauge's inlet is of course under water. At operating pressure, I'm guessing the pressuretrols are at risk too, though if air can't escape through their diaphragms, then theoretically they'll never see water at their inlets either. Still, I'm wondering if this pressuretrol tree wouldn't be slightly improved with the addition of a float-type (hydronic) air vent under the trap's water line. Or maybe a vacuum breaker to help the trap seal move and recede more effectively on pressure rise and fall.
    Or am I addressing a problem that doesn't actually exist in real life? I've done that before
    .
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, Master Plumber
    in New York
    in New Jersey
    for Consulting Work
    or take his class.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,132
    I go by the "touch & ouch!" test.
    With any water seal, either pigtail loop or pipe built like this, for me the temp of the steam inlet is obvious by feel. The water seal is surprisingly cool as is the pipe under the devices.

    In my mind, the steam pushes on the water seal, the water pushes on the air trapped between the water and the device.
    As long as the upper air chamber does not leak the air remains captive.............does anyone else see it this way?
    JohnNYGrallertratio
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,422
    This is the same setup as on my Peerless 211A, (from the factory), and I think it would behave just like a pigtail. The added mass of water might damp down any fluctuations in pressure and give a more steady reading.—NBC
    JohnNY
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,182
    @JUGHNE I've always used the touch and feel test, as long as the base of the gauge and p/vstsat are much cooler than the bottom of the pigtail or trap you sb ok. I do think it's worthwhile getting the protected devices up at least 4-6" just to be safe.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
Sign In or Register to comment.

Welcome

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!