Anyone try this ? Rectorseal 68712 Quart 8-Way Boiler Water Treatment

acl10

Rectorseal 68712 Quart 8-Way Boiler Water Treatment. Did anyone try this is it anygood?

ricka1234

Yes, thats all i use in steam boilers2clean'm. Drain the boiler1st,then add 8way &fill boiler 2normal level.(water wil b pink)..let run4bout a week & it'll drag every bit of dirt back2boiler. (Watr w be now dark blue/purple).. drain&fill,drain&fill.. keep repeating(1/2 dzn times or so).. & system is clean... good luck

SlamDunk

Tried it. Hated it. Reached the ideal color and suffered major surging. Took forever to purge it out. No more additives for me.

The Steam Whisperer

Works great. I suspect that those that claim it caused all sorts of surging had not properly flushed the boiler after the first few doses. It breaks loose all sorts of garbage in the boiler and will definitely cause the water line to go nuts. All that debris needs to be cleaned out for a healthy boiler. I have pressure washed the interior of boilers until the water was clear coming out and after only about 10 minutes of steaming time with 8 Way, the water was filthy and the boiler needed to be flushed multiple times to remove the garbage it had broken loose. Once you get the boiler clean and treat it regularly ( usually after the first year), the water then stays quite clean if the system does not have major leaks or piping issues. Cuts yearly service costs substantially for our regular customers.

SlamDunk

The Steam Whisperer said:

I suspect that those that claim it caused all sorts of surging ....

....... and will definitely cause the water line to go nuts. All that debris needs to be cleaned out for a healthy boiler.

Cuts yearly service costs substantially for our regular customers.

Healthy boiler? Cuts yearly service costs? Sorry, I dont buy it.

Neild5

I am oneof Dave's customers and I agree with him.

BobC

I have a lot of respect for Dave's opinions, it would take a lot to convince me he is wrong about something like this.

Bob

SlamDunk

I have a lot of respect for everyone's opinion- but I just happen to disagree on this based on experience. The OP asked and I gave my response. Now I'll explain why in more detail.

Iron rusts. Period. You will always find crud in your boiler. Always. Think about it; not all condensate makes it back to the boiler at the end of heating season. It sits in radiators and pipes rusting away, getting cruddy. Next heating season pushes this crud back to the boiler.

If you really want to maintain the water in your boiler, don't add snake oil, just check the conductivity of it and partial drain from bottom and replenish water until it is around 2000-3000 micro siemen and continue steaming. This allows the surface of the water to easily release steam. Too high conductivity and bubbles have a hard time breaking through causing and unstable water line and wet steam. (think of the splatter from a pot of boiling soup vs a pot of clean boiling water).

Too low means you are likely adding too much make up water which will cause more corrosion because of added oxygen.

If you cannot justify the cost of a conductivity meter (@$850.00), simply drain a portion of boiler's water capacity while steaming and replace it once a month during heating season. You should be testing LWCO regularly anyway. Do not do this in last month of heating season. Save it for first month of next heating season. If water line corrosion keeps you awake, then raise water level to first nipple above boiler, make steam, then put her to bed for the summer.

The last thing you want is a lot of water hammer in the middle of the night , in the middle of the winter because you added 8-way to the perfect tinge of lavender. I'm not slamming Dave , as much as I'm slamming 8-way.

The Steam Whisperer

Iron does not always rust. If the PH of the water is right, corrosion stops altogether ( its pretty amazing). I believe 8 way adjusts PH into the proper zone and also includes oxygen scavangers and some cleaning compounds. With the higher Ph , some anti foaming agents need to be added too. I also believe that 8-way is carried out into the system so the water that sits in the radiators is also treated. I've worked on some systems that had suffered from alot of leaks and corrosion and after we got the system tightened up and a season of 8 way treatments and blow downs, the gage glass stayed readable for 4 years without cleaning. Nice stable waterline too. However, it does take some work to get it there... usually a whole season with neglected systems or old boilers. The typical yearly 4 hour cleaning time for a Million BTU boiler drops to about 1.75 hours most years, except when the burner ( burners) need cleaning.

SlamDunk

True, the higher the ph the lower the corrosion. I was very careful with rectorseal but was also very disappointed. The time, cold shoulder from the wife and water wasted wasnt worth the potential good results. My local water ph is 8.5. With what amounts to about one complete changeover of water in a heating season, I believe my ph to be close to seven which is not acidic. I think more readers would be happier not using 8-way.

The Steam Whisperer

I think corrosion stops around 9.5 or so, so you are at an advantage over many others.

PMJ

My 1956 Bryant boiler manual basically says don't drain each season and don't add anything except in very unusual feed water conditions. I don't and I haven't. I crack drain valves both sides on start up each season and let maybe a quart run out till they run clear. My sight glass is perfectly clear always. I keep feed water valve off and walk by every day so I will know if something changes. Haven't added a thing so far this season past replacing the gallon or less I let out. System runs in natural vacuum so totally closed off to outside air except maximum 4-5 minutes each burn 3 times an hour. Totally closed up in off season. Checked the ph once it was over 9.

Piping is 91 years old, current boiler 61. I am convinced from this experience it is probably hard to beat the same water boiled over and over again with nothing added - just like Bryant said.

A college friend who has run a boiler supply business for 40 years told me the boiler I have would outlast any new one I put in today - even with 61 years already on it. Something is really wrong with that.

ChrisJ

The previous owner here had two boilers rott out in 8 years. I installed a new boiler and saw how rough the water was on it and started using treatment. My boiler is 7 years old now and shows no signs of corrosion.


@The Steam Whisperer is most certainly right.


He's also right regarding a clean boiler and treatment of any kind. Surging is the fault of a dirty boiler.

SlamDunk

to each his own. draining and filling is a form of treatment. And as I , and steam whisperer said, 8way can make the water line go nuts.

My drained water looks like used motor oil but the water line steady and the system is quiet. I gave up looking for clean water in a boiler.

ChrisJ

@SlamDunk mine hasn't been drained since fall 16 and I assure you if you drain it now you'll get clean purple water

PMJ

I think it has to do with how much water is added ongoing. I add treatment to the water going into the boiler at the plant which is supplied from the same city water as my home. But the system is much larger with significant consumption in blow downs and some leaking valve stems etc. I wouldn't try to run that without treatment.

A home system though should have minimal losses and makeup. Pretty rough water supply that has enough of something in it to kill a system from one fill up and single digit new gallons a year.

SlamDunk

ChrisJ said:

@SlamDunk mine hasn't been drained since fall 16 and I assure you if you drain it now you'll get clean purple water

My ability to heat my house is as good as yours- without the added complexity of chemistry. Plus, my city water has the added benefit of flouride! No cavities!

I’d say 75% of my water is from 2016. I do test lwco every 2-3weeks. My boiler is seven years old and the one before it was 73yrs old.

I typically run on 3oz with a 4 degree setback. Less to maintain temp. Thanks to this forum.

The ability to say “ you warm Honey? You’re welcome!” is the only bragging right i need.

I suppose if you have poor water, you need additives. I am fortunate to have great water.

ChrisJ

> @SlamDunk said:
> @SlamDunk mine hasn't been drained since fall 16 and I assure you if you drain it now you'll get clean purple water
>
> My ability to heat my house is as good as yours- without the added complexity of chemistry. Plus, my city water has the added benefit of flouride! No cavities!
>
> I’d say 75% of my water is from 2016. I do test lwco every 2-3weeks. My boiler is seven years old and the one before it was 73yrs old.
>
> I typically run on 3oz with a 4 degree setback. Less to maintain temp. Thanks to this forum.
>
> The ability to say “ you warm Honey? You’re welcome!” is the only bragging right i need.
>
> I suppose if you have poor water, you need additives. I am fortunate to have great water.

3 ounces?
That's crazy talk!



That's are fine and good, but as I said, no black sludge comes out of my boiler.

gerry gill

isn't 8 way just basically the liquid version of steamaster tablets?

Canucker

No, there was something different in the 8 way from the steam master tablets. Not a big difference but I can't recall what it was right now, probably what was used for pH adjustment and oxygen scavenging

SlamDunk

i wouldnt call it sludge since it flows like water. i cant deny that i wanted cleaner, even purple, water to come out but my attempt with 8-way was a disaster. i gave up.

A person can go crazy trying seek perfection with something like clean boiler water.

HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone!!!

BobC

@SlamDunk One of my old bosses use to have a favorite saying

- Better is the enemy of good enough.

I hope everybody has a Great New Year!

Bob

SlamDunk

I tell this old joke when I see people losing the good in search of perfection:


Head goes to the bar

A man is waiting for his wife to give birth. The doctor comes in and informs the dad that his son was born without torso, arms or legs. The son is just a head! But the dad loves his son and raises him as well as he can, with love and compassion. After 21 years, the son is old enough for his first drink. Dad takes him to the bar and tearfully tells the son he is proud of him.

Dad orders up the biggest, strongest drink for his boy. With all the bar patrons looking on curiously and the bartender shaking his head in disbelief, the boy takes his first sip of alcohol. Swoooop! A torso pops out!

The bar is dead silent; then bursts into a whoop of joy. The father, shocked, begs his son to drink again. The patrons chant "Take another drink"! The bartender still shakes his head in dismay.

Swoooop! Two arms pops out. The bar goes wild. The father, crying and wailing, begs his son to drink again. The patrons chant, "Take another drink"! The bartender ignores the whole affair. By now the boy is getting tipsy, and with his new hands he reaches down, grabs his drink and guzzles the last of it. Swoooop! Two legs pop out.

The bar is in chaos. The father falls to his knees and tearfully thanks God. The boy stands up on his new legs and stumbles to the left.... then to the right.... right through the front door, into the street, where a truck runs over him and kills him instantly.

The bar falls silent. The father moans in grief. The bartender sighs and says, "That boy should have quit while he was a head.

Canucker

@SlamDunk that's the danger of walking before you learn to crawl, you get hit by a truck. I blame his parents

srmaietta

I use 8 way. It did bring all the crud out of my boiler at first, lots of flushing and refilling. The surging and everything, it was chaos. But after a few good skims last year, my water is a low shade of purple and she steams great. It has stayed clean and since, nothing but light purple water comes from my LWCO or return drain!

I assume that if one added a couple steammaster tabs to an older dirty boiler it would break a lot of crud loose and the situation would be the same.

I'd rather not add anything, but if this prevents corrosion in my 35 year old beast, why wouldn't I add it?

Give it a shot, prepare to baby the thing for a day or two, but rest assured it should settle down after a few good skims and drains.

~Steve

Fred

I would caution Homeowners who decide to add some chemical to their boiler to make sure it is compatible with those boilers that have rubber/composite gaskets between the sections. Weil McLain is one boiler that comes to mind. Just a word of caution for those who might think any old detergent/additive may be helpful.

EdwinD

@acl10 This heating season I switched from Steamaster tablets to Rectorseal 8-Way. Steamaster tablets worked great for me, but they definitely have a shelf life. In my last application of 1-1/2 tablets, it didn't yield much of a purple hue, more like a faint pink in an otherwise clean boiler. Having made the switch to 8-Way, it's worked well for me. My boiler holds 17.3 gallons of water to the water line and a quart of 8-Way seemed like a bit much. I used 16 ounces and it's more than adequate. Unlike Steamaster which initially yields significant surging at the beginning, 8-Way had very little surging.

ChrisJ

EdwinD said:

@acl10 This heating season I switched from Steamaster tablets to Rectorseal 8-Way. Steamaster tablets worked great for me, but they definitely have a shelf life. In my last application of 1-1/2 tablets, it didn't yield much of a purple hue, more like a faint pink in an otherwise clean boiler. Having made the switch to 8-Way, it's worked well for me. My boiler holds 17.3 gallons of water to the water line and a quart of 8-Way seemed like a bit much. I used 16 ounces and it's more than adequate. Unlike Steamaster which initially yields significant surging at the beginning, 8-Way had very little surging.

Does the 8 way also indicate PH via the color like Steamaster?

EdwinD

@ChrisJ Yes, it does have a PH indicator, of a purplish hue like Steamaster. Out of the bottle, the solution is blue.

CantabHeat

I use 8-way and am generally happy. As has been pointed out if your system is not clean then if you start using it things are going to get worse before they get better. I think that’s what gives this stuff a bad rap when people don’t know that or don’t stick it through.

Once all the crud was gone the system now runs very clean and tame and the water that nice purple hue. Annual system flushes now produce very little sediment from the wet returns and boiler itself which would seem to indicate it really has significantly slowed if not almost stopped corrosion. Water and iron have funny chemistry but at the right pH and under the right conditions very little rust will actually form.

nicholas bonham-carter

I’ve been using Steamaster tablets for a year now, And the rust staining of the sight glass is reduced, but still there. Here is the hue of the water.—NBC

ethicalpaul

They are all basically lye, right?

I use 8-way because it's easy to measure and pour in and it's pretty cheap. Just don't follow the instructions for how much to use. Start with 1/3 of what they say and go up from there.

Hap_Hazzard

8-way is about 15% NaOH (lye) by weight. It also has 4.87% Na₃HPO₄ (Sodium Phosphate) and NaNO₂ 6.78% (Sodium Nitrite). (It's probably around 60–70% water?)
The SteamMaster tablets, on the other hand, contain no lye. They are 44% Sodium Nitrite, 24% Sodium Triphosphate and 1.34% Sodium Metasilicate. They also have 3.36% Citric Acid, probably to scavenge oxygen. Its effect on pH would be negligible.
Both products appear to have the same pH indicator and similar buffering systems.

ethicalpaul

Thanks! I figured the citric acid was for that lemony-fresh scent!

ChrisJ

My steamaster dose is getting old. I think I'm going on 3 seasons now.

I need to give it a good washing and fresh dose.

mikeg2015

Just put some in my boiler this afternoon. Still trying to get my salvaged boiler cleaner. Had even more scale than I expected sitting open for 9 months in a basement after a house burnt down. Still “kettling” a little when heating the water before boiling. Getting bits of scale in the LWCO and out the drains and the DHW loop strainer.

Really ,really wish I had installed a 2” Cross for I could pressure wash it or at least hose it out good. Live and learn.

ChrisJ

I finally washed the boiler out yesterday and here's what my water looks like using a bottle of Steamaster pills I opened in 2012.

I use two pills just like I always have. I see no difference.

ethicalpaul

I love that “skim cozy”

mikeg2015

Mine wasn’t too dirty when I drained it this morning. Got some more scale chunks out of the bottom though. I’ll just keep blowing down the LWCO and some mud legs a couple times a week to get rid of the scale bits.

It did seem to kettle a lot less than before and flue gas temps are about 10F cooler, so that’s a good sign. That in theory, is a .3% improvement in efficiency if my calculations are right. Wish I had a reliable, good, combustion analyzer. I have the little fieldpiece attachment and have little faith in it’s accuracy.

nicholas bonham-carter

Chrisj, I see your water is more purple than mine. Although it could be the lighting. I think the last time I tested my Ph, it was 9.5–NBC

ChrisJ

> @nicholas bonham-carter said:
> Chrisj, I see your water is more purple than mine. Although it could be the lighting. I think the last time I tested my Ph, it was 9.5–NBC

I don't know if that effects how purple it is. It turns blue below a certain point but other than that I assume it's just the phone / lighting.

I use two pills.