To repair or to replace? That's the question! Steam boiler by gas

steamedaboutboiler

I have a steam boiler by gas.

Just bought a 2 family property. Boilers are old, but didn't realize no one would touch them to even diagnose. Unit 1 is a 38 year old Hydrotherm. Unit 2 is a 25 year old Weil Mclain. The WM was leaking gas and CO. Had to turn off. I got a chimney sweep, he removed a brick that had fallen and was clogging the flue. Tried to turn on again, and sweet smell was pouring out. We turned off the gas again. He said it's not the chimney, there's a good draft, not the metal part that connects to boiler to the chimney. Then hee noticed that there was a lot of corrosion. He made a quick, free visit, but was late for a job.

Decided I needed to replace it. Got quotes, all too high. Able to find some reasonable quotes. A couple weeks ago, had a used appliance person deliver a washer and dryer, he said he'd come back to swap out the washer, he didn't realize it was going to be so visible. He came back to swap, and said he also does boilers when I mentioned my new headache. I was skeptical, but figured I'd have him look at it. He looked at it, said they could fix it, it's the burner deck (I think that's what he called it). One of the tubes broke off it was that corroded. This makes sense why there was still a leak. He wants to charge me about 10% the total cost of a new WM to fix it. He said it will be all fixed, could last 10 more years (hard to believe), will be safe/no more leaks, and will only need to be serviced every other year, and he could do that.

So my question: to repair, or to replace, that's the question!

I'm not sure it will last another 10 years, but if I could get another 5, then I'll finally qualify for the Mass Save rebate if it still exists. Plus after putting so much cash down to buy this place only a month ago, and no tenants yet, would be nice not to buy a new boiler right now, but I don't want to kill anyone, I don't know if emergency calls in the middle of the winter makes it worth saving money, don't know if this is a bandaid and if another major part will break and flood or emit gas sand CO just down the road, or if replacing the burner deck should fix many of my issues for a reasonable amount of time.

Or should I just bite the bullet and buy the new boiler and be done with it and sleep easy. I really worry about safety and liability.

One thing I'm noticing, I keep seeing that the installation is critical for a good boiler. I think I found someone I like for the installation. But no reputable company will touch the boiler, except that one who is too busy for my job. And the appliance guy who supposedly is licenced and insured. I know in order to service or repair the boiler, I'm very limited to who I can use, but at 10% of the total cost of a new boiler, is it worth the risk?

steamedaboutboiler

FYI- my other boiler. I knew they were old, didn't realize no one would touch them and one was unsafe. This is the one that still operates, but needs to be filled once a week.

BobC

Welcome to the unpredictable world of home ownership.

On the boiler with the rotted burner tube, why did it rot? Is this an indication that this boiler has a leak? The floor is discolored underneath some of that boiler and that looks a lot like something is leaking.

Find out what is leaking, if it's a pipe outside the boiler it can be fixed, if the boiler heat exchanger is leaking the boiler will fail at some point. A leak means water is being added to the boiler and fresh water can kill cast iron because it has oxygen in it.

If this is a rental property I would be very careful who I allow to work on the gas burner. If he's not licensed you could be opening yourself up to huge liability; your insurance could become null and void if an investigation turns up the fact work was done by unlicensed people, you would be legally responsible without a leg to stand on if something goes wrong.

Do you know where the other boiler is leaking from, I'd spend some time with it and find out where the leak is.

Boilers don't fail in June, they fail in the dead of winter and then you really get screwed because there is no time to shop around. Did the home inspection flag these boilers?

Bob

nicholas bonham-carter

On both boilers, do the overfill test, (see post above about excessive water).
If you had a building inspection, then contact the inspector for an explanation.
You may be able to replace both boilers with one, with the right thermostat placement.—NBC

steamedaboutboiler

Thank you @BobC very helpful! I will see about where the leak is coming from, inside or out, I'm thinking inside because I can't remember any pipes on the outside in the back. Much of that staining was sometime knocked into the bucket of dirty water. It usually looks like the attached photo.

Good point on the liability. This is making me think I should replace. Thank you. I know it needs to be done anyway. Thank you!

Thank you @nicholas bonham-carter , I'll try that, thanks so much! I'm just learning about the excessive water. I'll contact the inspector, that's a good idea.

Not a bad idea about the boilers, however I like that they have to pay for their heating.

Thank you both!!

EBEBRATT-Ed

The only person that can help you make the right decision is a qualified service technician with combustion testing equipment. I don't know if the "dryer guy" is that person or not. If the boilers don't leak water they may be worth fixing.
Co problems can usually be fixed. I would be concerned with the chimney if a brick fell but a chimney liner can fix that.

Where are you located in MA? Did you try find a contractor" on this site?

steamedaboutboiler

Thanks @EBEBRATT-Ed . Was only getting that guy to hemp to fix, but I've decided to go with a new boiler. Money is tight, so going with the Williamson GSA 125 and 100. I prefer WM, and read reviews on Burnham, pretty mixed. So going with Williamson since it looks like it's the same as an older WM.

Brickwork is pretty bad, turning into dust. Going liner can work even at this point.

Winthrop. But already had a bunch of calls for quotes in. Going to use the local guy I think.

steamedaboutboiler

@EBEBRATT-Ed , do you service that area?

KC_Jones

Make sure they size it properly, don't assume your current ones are correct. Bigger is definitely not better.

steamedaboutboiler

@KC_Jones actually sizing down, the old one 175,000 btu is way too big, only need 125,000. I guess helps not short cycle?

nicholas bonham-carter

Are you replacing both boilers?
Don't let him forget the skimming port!—NBC

steamedaboutboiler

Thoughts on Williamson GSA 125 and 100? Other option Burnham for about 10% more. Both need to be replaced, but bigger one failed and needs to be done right away, other can wait a small amount of time.

He said he'd skim and flush.

BobC

Just make sure he is generous with the the boiler output pipe size, don't let them reduce the pipe size coming out of the boiler outlet. It helps to use a header that is at least one size larger than the pipe coming out of the boiler so you get nice dry steam.
A lot of installers don't like to go above 2" because they don't have threader that goes above 2" but they can buy pre-threaded pipe if they plan ahead so they don't have to thread the big stuff. It's well worth a couple of bucks it costs to do it right.

Bob

steamedaboutboiler

Thank you so much, @BobC !

KC_Jones

steamedaboutboiler said:

@KC_Jones actually sizing down, the old one 175,000 btu is way too big, only need 125,000. I guess helps not short cycle?

How was it sized?

steamedaboutboiler

Counted and measured radiators

Dave0176

@steamedaboutboiler make sure they did an EDR by using the old charts to size your radiators, I’ll give you a picture of the one I use. As far as Williamson is concerned it is not an older model Weil-McLain but is an identical up to date boiler the only difference being the color, and price of course. Make sure they build a good size header, as Fred mentioned sometimes larger then 2” pipe may be needed for the risers.

ChrisJ

Williamson is identical to WM. Except for the color.

Make sure they are sized properly and piped properly. If they aren't you'll be sorry.

j a_2

steamedaboutboiler said:

Thoughts on Williamson GSA 125 and 100? Other option Burnham for about 10% more. Both need to be replaced, but bigger one failed and needs to be done right away, other can wait a small amount of time.



He said he'd skim and flush.

He said he would skim and flush, really that should not even have to be discussed, it’s mandatory in a steam installation,it’s not like he’s doing you a favor....down load Peerless boilers the color of steam and read it

steamedaboutboiler

Thank you so much @Dave0176 and @ChrisJ , that makes me feel better about the brand to know that. Thank you for the chart! Thank you, @j a ! He mentioned it when I asked about something, can't remember what though. I'll check out that peerless site, thanks!

SEE BELOW... Is this what everyone is talking about for the pipes? And should I insulate stream mains?




Quote reads: (partial quote only)

• All new pipe and fittings will be used to build a new header and near-boiler connections as per manufacturer
• ...... has not included, but strongly recommends insulating the steam mains.
All labor, materials and accessories needed to complete a neat and efficient installation in accord with all
codes will be provided. All permits necessary for the installation will be filed by ..... Plumbing and
Heating. At completion, the system will be tested, and left ready to operate automatically.

steamhouse

Make sure they read the instal manual! And you should read it as well to make sure it is installed exactly or better than the manual calls for

steamedaboutboiler

@steamhouse thanks! Good idea!

j a_2

The plumbing and gas inspector will most likely just check the gas line, the venting up the chimney and the water attached and necessary back flow if required...so nobody really inspects the near boiler piping...generally speaking