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indirect poll please

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GW
GW Member Posts: 4,700
I've installed several hundred of htp super stor. I like them, they stand behind their warranty. I wish i could save a few minutes of labor and material though.

What other lifetime warranty tanks are you all using and please share why if you can.

Any input of the new Viessmann white tank?

I guy them in '6 packs' (to save a few bucks) and our last one is going out the door Monday.
Gary Wilson
Wilson Services, Inc
Northampton, MA
gary@wilsonph.com

Comments

  • bob eck
    bob eck Member Posts: 930
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    I work for F W Webb we sell the following.

    Purepro (built by Amtrol for F W Webb) coil mounted on top
    Amtrol Boiler Mate blue model coil bottom up
    HTP Superstore
    Vaughn stone lined tank
    Vaughn just came out with their plastic tank called the Featherweight. Anyone using this IDWH?
    Burnham Alliance (Vaughn stone lined)
    Weil Mclain Aqua Plus
    Lochinvar IDWH
    Triangle Tube Smart tank within a tank
    Bradford White glass lined IDWH

    GW is using HTP what brand are you using?
    Anyone using another brand?

    Anyone storing the water at 140 - 160 degrees and using a mixing valve?
    What brand mixing valve are you using?


  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,700
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    Bob, thanks, which of those are lifetime?
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,700
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    and is the Amtrol Boiler Mate still a viable option? My guys and I chuckle when we feel the heat bellowing off of them tanks when we are on calls/installs
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    Solid_Fuel_ManRich_49
  • unclejohn
    unclejohn Member Posts: 1,833
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    I'm still using Smart tanks and they have a lifetime. I have also replaced a few under that LT warranty. Not sure the solution is a manual vent instead of the auto vent that used to come on them for the boiler water side.
    rbeck
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,700
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    John, please tell me more, you talking triangle tube? what's up with 'that' warranty?

    and what is up with questions on venting??
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,700
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    John, I just looked that up. 36 gal seems light, 56 gal seems more costly
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,441
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    Brad White has a "lifetime" tank Steel tank, steel coil.... 3 (three) Anode rods! It is a pretty heavy tank.

    I actually really like the SS Pro. All stainless (coil and tank) Top connection for water. 10 yr warranty.

    IBC makes an indirect that looks super sleek. All stainless. I have used 1.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,379
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    Ditto on the SSPro. I've also done a lot Smart tanks.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,254
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    Determine what works best in your area. I hear the SS tanks don't last long with Long Island water, so in some areas glass or stone lined is a better choice.

    Some value in the reverse indirects like the Thermo 2000, a thick plain steel tank that holds the low pressure boiler water, copper coils inside contain the DHW.

    I think D. Holohan raised 4 girls on a reverse indirect tank. On Long Island.
    Maybe a million gallons flowed thru that tank? :)
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • bob eck
    bob eck Member Posts: 930
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    Like Hot Rod said see what works best in your area SS, stonelined, glass lined or plastic.
    I would like to see the new Vaughn Featherlight that is plastic.
    I also noticed the Flexcon is coming out with a plastic buffer tank.
    Anyone using either the new Vaughn Featherweight or Flexcon buffer tank?
    I work for a wholesaler but if I was in business for myself I would not want to sell an IDWH (or anything else) that has a lifetime warranty. I would like to sell one that has an 10 to 12 year warranty not prorated.
    What does lifetime warranty really mean?
    I believe most lifetime warranties are to the person that owns the home at the time the IDWH is installed. Once a new owner buys the house lifetime warranty ends? Are any lifetime warranties transferable to second owner for a fee? Some are prorated. Some lifetime warranties might contain a clause about water quality. What happens to the lifetime warranty you sold to your customer If the manufacture goes out of business? The home owner has the warranty with the manufacture and when they can’t get a new tank at no cost to them they most likely will not be happy with you even though it is not your fault.
    Be careful with lifetime warranties read the fine print make sure your customers reads the fine print. Remind them the warranty is with the home owner and the manufacture and if (when) the IDWH leaks they will need to pay to have the unit replaced and some times if the manufacture wants the leaking IDWH sent back to them via freight to inspect it the home owner Is responsible for that cost.
    Is any manufacture offering lifetime warranties on boiler? So why must there be a lifetime warranty on an IDWH.
    With most car manufacturers you buy a new car or truck $20,000 to $50,000 and up and you never get a lifetime warranty. What do you get 24,000 - 36,000 mile warranty and if you want to cover everything bumper to bumper for 75,000 - 100,000 miles you pay for that extended warranty another $2,500 and up.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,861
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    I haven't done installations in 10+ years but I've used Turbo Max for virtually endless hot water. Buderus S or ST tanks when using a Buderus boiler. The stackable is great in tight locations. Techtanium by HTP is also a good, reliable tank.
    The company I'm with uses the SS. I was never a fan it the TT tank. On Long Island they have a reputation to leak at the welds and the sensor well. There's been customers who've gone through 3 tanks in 15 years. A lifetime guarantee of frustration Never trust a tank that doesn't have a drain.
    As far as a lifetime warranty, like Tommy Boy said "You can get a good look at a T bone steak by sticking your head up the bulls ****, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,075
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    I'll probably be in the market for one for myself in the future.
    What are the issues of material and labor for a "lifetime" of HTP Superstore??

    Is it worth breaking in a new horse? ;)
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
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    I've had excellent luck with Heat-Flo indirects. To be honest, I don't know their warranty, never had to make a claim. 100% 316L stainless tank and coil. Water in this area is low on chlorides so AS tanks seem to hold well.

    I like the solar tanks, basically an indirect with a single electric element in the bottom. In the summer with a high mass oil boiler, just turn off the boiler and use the tank as an electric water heater.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    GW
  • pitman44
    pitman44 Member Posts: 18
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    Personally I believe the warranties for most manufacturers aren't worth the paper they're written. We had a Vaughn Top Performer stone lined tank fail 9 years and 6 months into a 10 year warranty. Vaughn denied the claim because it wasn't the original owner. The original owners were a husband and wife who divorced and the wife now owned the home.

    We had an HTP SuperStor leak 13 or 14 months after the install. The aquastat well leaked. They wouldn't even provide the well. We replaced the well on our dime.

    We haven't used anything from Vaughn or HTP since. FWIW as another poster mentioned, I wouldn't view a lifetime warranty as a benefit. Find a company with a reasonable warranty that they'll stand behind. We've been using Utica indirects for the past several years.
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
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    pitman44 said:

    Personally I believe the warranties for most manufacturers aren't worth the paper they're written. We had a Vaughn Top Performer stone lined tank fail 9 years and 6 months into a 10 year warranty. Vaughn denied the claim because it wasn't the original owner. The original owners were a husband and wife who divorced and the wife now owned the home.

    We had an HTP SuperStor leak 13 or 14 months after the install. The aquastat well leaked. They wouldn't even provide the well. We replaced the well on our dime.

    We haven't used anything from Vaughn or HTP since. FWIW as another poster mentioned, I wouldn't view a lifetime warranty as a benefit. Find a company with a reasonable warranty that they'll stand behind. We've been using Utica indirects for the past several years.

    Agreed x10.
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,700
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    That’s lame, but believable. Wife wasn’t on the deed? Super lame
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • unclejohn
    unclejohn Member Posts: 1,833
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    TT or AVC used to have a auto vent on the boiler side of the tank. Then they had a vent that would auto stop when water hit the membrane. There techs said the problems with the tank leaks were caused by water dripping from the vents, they now come with a manual vent. I don't buy that as the problem. I also don't like the fact I have to bleed the air myself. But I'm not going to add a auto vent and void the warranty.
  • rbeck
    rbeck Member Posts: 56
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    Stone lined tanks have no need for anode rods and will not be affected by water conditions. Steel is a bit thicker.
  • Jean-David Beyer
    Jean-David Beyer Member Posts: 2,666
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    My indirect, I suppose, does not have a lifetime warranty. It is a "40 gallon" Weil-McLane Plus-Line indirect tank-within-a-tank type that is now nine years old. Probably made by Triangle Tube; made in Belgium. I use municipal water in eastern Monmouth County, New Jersey (probably comes from nearby river).

    It has a knob on top to adjust the set point, a Taco air-vent valve, a P/T relief valve, and the domestic water input and output on top. Also a siphon-type drain on the top. On the side are the boiler input and output pipes.

    The only problem I have had was a year or two ago, the P/T valve was dumping water on the floor at a great rate. The problem was that the aquastat demanded heat all the time and the boiler supplied 190F water, so it relieved on temperature. (190F +|- 5F, so it could have been 195F in the tank. Replacing the aquastat fixed the problem.

    I do not suppose you can reach any conclusion for this one data point.
    Mark Eatherton
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    I've used SuperStor, SMART and Viessmann indirects and have settled on using Viessmann exclusively. Their tank nipples are now NPT and you don't have to use the adapters they sent along. I have had a 50 gallon horizontal Viessmann in my crawlspace for 10 years.

    Why do I like Viessmann? I got tired of replacing leaking tanks.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,700
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    Alan, the new white tank seems appealing, have you used that?
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • flat_twin
    flat_twin Member Posts: 350
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    Bock glass lined indirects for residential use can have a lifetime warranty if the tank is registered when it's installed. Standard warranty is 7 years. Our water was within spec for stainless but the previous two glass lined electric tanks lasted over 20 years each so I took a chance on another glass lined tank. I read enough positive comments about Bock and I also liked the fact that the employees are part owners and motivated to make quality products. I'd be happy with 20+ trouble free years, we'll see.
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    Gary: I haven't seen the white ones yet except on the Viessmann website.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab