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Help with bleeding.

donrdonr Member Posts: 21
Hi. This summer, I installed a BM K42 Twin Flow lll toe kick heather in my kitchen. I bled the system directly at the boiler outlet valves where it splits into 2 loops. This is a Weil McLain Eco hot water boiler that I had installed last winter and has only one zone but 2 loops. I don't know if it's worth mentioning but this boiler also supplies my domestic hot water.
When the boiler is on for heat, I can hear a gurgling sound in the pipes. I am pretty sure this is air. Yesterday, I was standing next to the heater when it started. It was like when you try to start a car and it won't start. The heater was making a loud banging noise and the wall where it is mounted was shaking. This lasted a good 10-15 seconds and then it started. It was scary. Since then, it has done it a few times. I have a Taco 4900 air separator that was suppose to take care of the air in the system. The system is heating fine otherwise. The toe kick is also working good.
I don't have any air bleeders on my baseboards except the one I installed on the toe kick. Am I doing it right to bleed the system at the boiler outlet where it splits into the 2 loops? I don't see where else I could bleed it!
Do you think it could be something else because I thought I had bled it good this summer. Someone told me that it has to be bled more than once. Is this true? Sorry for the long post.
Don

Comments

  • IronmanIronman Member Posts: 3,746
    edited December 6
    Please post some pics of the near boiler piping and where you're trying to bleed it. We need to see the entire picture.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • donrdonr Member Posts: 21
    OK here we go. The first pic is of the boiler installation with the yellow arrows indicating where to close the 2 loops. The red circle indicates where i plug a hose to bleed the system. When I installed the toe kick, I closed the loops. After it was installed, I opened each loop individually and bled with a hose connected on the valves with the red circle until I did not see any air coming out.




  • NY_RobNY_Rob Member Posts: 631
    donr said:

    ....Yesterday, I was standing next to the heater when it started. It was like when you try to start a car and it won't start. The heater was making a loud banging noise and the wall where it is mounted was shaking. This lasted a good 10-15 seconds and then it started. It was scary

    Take a look at your boiler's error code history.
    "banging noise and wall shaking" don't sound like air in the pipe issues.


  • IronmanIronman Member Posts: 3,746
    That would be the correct place to purge air. TEMPORARILY adjust the fill valve to maintain 25 psi and purge each loop with the other one closed off. Then set the fill valve back down to where it was (count the number of turns it took to get to 25 psi and reverse it).

    The outlet on the backflow prevent should not be capped; you rendered it useless by doing so.

    What is the cold boiler pressure?

    Can you post another pic from farther back that shows everything around the boiler?
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • donrdonr Member Posts: 21
    NY_Rob said:


    Take a look at your boiler's error code history.
    "banging noise and wall shaking" don't sound like air in the pipe issues.

    No error codes

    Ironman said:

    TEMPORARILY adjust the fill valve to maintain 25 psi.

    Not to sound ignorant but I am. How do I adjust the fill valve. I don't even know where it is. The only valve I see is the main water valve circled in red in 2nd pic. That brings the water to the boiler.
    NY_Rob said:

    The outlet on the backflow prevent should not be capped; you rendered it useless by doing so

    Same thing here although the guys that installed the system did that. I didn't touch anything in here.
    NY_Rob said:

    What is the cold boiler pressure?

    Right now the boiler is off although not cold but the pressure is around 12 to 14 psi.
    As far as pictures I hope this helps because it's the best I can do.
    :)










  • IronmanIronman Member Posts: 3,746
    The space heating pump is in the wrong place: it should be on the supply line "pumping away" from the Point Of No Pressure Change which is where the expansion tank connects.

    They way it now is, the pumps pressure differential is deducted from the system's pressure. If it were "pumping away", its pressure differential would be ADDED to the system's static pressure. You could be flashing to steam because it's lowering the boiling point by lowering the pressure.

    Mark Eatherton just posted a video on here that demonstrates this. See that for more info.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • donrdonr Member Posts: 21
    I took a few pictures from another angle because there actually is another pump and valve. I have been having this problem since this heating season has started and am wondering if it's because I installed the toe kick. It was not doing that last year so that is why I was wondering if it's because I still had air in the system and if I was bleeding it right.





  • IronmanIronman Member Posts: 3,746
    I can't tell from the pics how that circulator is piped into the system.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • unclejohnunclejohn Member Posts: 987
    Move the black pump to the supply pumping away.
  • donrdonr Member Posts: 21
    I hope these help








  • Leon82Leon82 Member Posts: 444
    How is your vent? Is it clear?
    I had a 5 ft snow drift once near my tankless water heater vent and it choked on it's exhaust.

    It made a god awful racket and shook the pipes
  • donrdonr Member Posts: 21
    Yes, vent is clear. I will start with bleeding it today since I am sure that this won't hurt and since it was working fine last year I don't see how the contractor would have screwed the installation. I live in Quebec and contrary to many places, you need to be licensed just to open and close the gas valve, and contractors know that their work has to pass inspection. Thanks to all that offered to help.
    Don
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