Steam pipe banging and completetely unbalanced

CT_Minh

Hello,
I'm having a heck of a time with my one pipe steam radiator system. The short version is that my 40 year old Utica Peg was red tagged by the gas company for carbon monoxide on my annual service call.

I've had a new Peg 150 installed, and main vents replaced and now I have a whole host of problems. With the old boiler, I feel like I had everything set as good as I could get; hardly any noise, balanced.

I've checked the radiators' pitch, pressuretrol is .5 cut in, diff 1.

1. At cycle start, pipes bang 3-5 times, loud and violent enough that it feels like someone dropped a 30lb sack on the floor. I think I have it isolated to an area.

2. The side of the house directly above the boiler heats VERY fast, within 10 minutes. It's a 2 story, 1st floor radiator with a #4, 2 2nd floor radiators with #6s. The flip side is that the segment of radiators on the opposite side take forever. Roughly 25 minutes, and I hear gurgling sloshing sounds when it finally gets hot.

3. Water is bouncing in glass tube, plumber didn't install skimming port.

Sooo...where would you start here?

nicholas bonham-carter

Start by calling the plumber, and requesting he install the mandatory skimming port. Say that if he does this required task without a lot of nagging from you, the time consuming part will be done by you.
The imbalance you have would indicate a main venting problem, so that would be the second job.
The plumber may also have added some snake oil to the boiler, so a drain and refill while cold would also help.—NBC

Jamie Hall

Um... the plumber did size the boiler correctly to the radiation? And installed the near boiler piping correctly to the manufacturer's specifications? I hate to ask, but it has been known to not happen...

CT_Minh

Aside from the boiler changing, they also installed a Hartford loop, so now I'm wondering if the pitch if off now.

Not feeling great, looks like the return is also leaking water. When they finished, they also had the cut in set to max...sigh...

JohnNY

Pictures are really going to help here.

CT_Minh

I think the piping is ok?

Jamie Hall

The side of the house that heats very fast isn't the one fed by the pipe that seems to go straight up from the boiler without going into the horizontal line over to the "equalizer', is it? And the side that heats slower is the one fed by the pipe which takes off up from that horizontal pipe? (I refuse to call it a header...).

Maybe I'm reading your pictures wrong -- I've done that before -- but I'm not really keen on that near boiler piping...

Danny Scully

No @CT_Minh, unfortunately I‎t isn’t piped ok. First, there is no skim tee. Second, that boiled size requires the use of both risers, not just 1. 3rd the riser is connected directly into the system takeoff...incorrect.

JohnNY

The header has to be redone. Then you can re-evaluate. But not before then. Once the header is configured correctly, the system is going to behave differently. It may not solve all your problems but it's the only place to start.

Fred

Another botched up installation. What is it with these guys? Even the most inexperienced person should be able to read instructions.
@CT_Minh , break out the I&O manual and look at the diagram. You need to use both side tappings, install a real header and size everything properly.

lchmb

they are to smart for the I&O manual..they know better than everyone..

CT_Minh

Well, this is what the manual says for one tapping. I'm not even going to try and pretend I fully get it...

Fred

I see that the the text in that manual says 2' riser(s) and a 2" Header but the Header should always be at least one size larger than the riser, out of the boiler.
You have two mains and each of them should have come off of the Header. The way yours is piped, one comes off of that skimpy header and the other goes straight up, off of the boiler riser. Steam will take the path of least resistance and I would expect it to take that straight path first, assuming both mains are properly vented.
With side tapped boilers, most recommend that both tapping be used because the tappings are so close to the water level in the boiler and the velocity, using just one tapping is high enough that excessive amounts of water gets thrown up into the header (and it's a small header to boot).
This manufacturer should do a much better job of setting a reasonable "Minimum piping" recommendation, if they don't do so with the other configurations referenced.

CT_Minh

Ok, so following the mains:

The radiators that heat fastest are on the main that goes through the header and then to a nearby radiator on 1st floor, then straight up to one 2nd floor radiator.

The slow heating main is the one that goes straight up, but then does a 90 to form a loop going to three 1st floor radiators and two 2nd floor radiators. The first two radiators on the loop heat up fast (one 2nd floor, one 1st floor), but the remaining three take forever.

Fred

What venting do you have on that looped main? and what venting is on the main off of the header?

CT_Minh

Both loops are Vent-Rite #75.
https://www.ventritevalve.com/products/75-main-vent/

These are brand new, but the vent on the slower loop looks like brown stuff spewed out of it...

Fred

Sounds like water blowing up in that main or really, really wet steam. Even though that vent is new, I bet it is clogged with crud and not doing much venting. Those vent-Rite #75's only vent at .116 CFM at 1 ounce of pressure. It would take 10 of those to equal one Gorton #2 or about 20 of them to equal one Big Mouth. How long are those mains? Those vents are way too small, even for the shortest Main(s). That will cause the boiler to run a long time just to push the air out of the mains so the steam can get through.
What do you have the Pressuretrol set at? Set the scale on the front to .5PSI and inside that box there is a white wheel. Set that to "1". That will give you a Cut out pressure of 1.5PSI.
You need a skim port and you need to do several skims to get the oils off of the surface of the water. With that piping, ideally you'd have it properly piped with a little bigger header and both mains coming off of the header. If you do that, use both tappings off of the boiler. Until then you need to keep the water as calm as possible so that it isn't blown up into the mains.

KC_Jones

Reading isn't an important skill to your contractor.

It's piped wrong and since you paid for it to be done properly I would make them fix it. The problem starts on the first pipe coming out of the boiler and continues from there.

The skim port on those boilers is the first fitting out the side, it's supposed to be a tee as clearly called out on the schematic.

Basically follow the elementary school picture, make it like that and then see how it's running. It will surely need a proper skimming as well.

Again without the tee it can't be skimmed and all new boilers need skimmed.

CT_Minh

Thought I'd post an update. I'm pretty much getting ghosted by the contractor, even though the return is leaking and chimney cap is sitting on the ground (chimney liner was added), and no skim port. They haven't been paid in full, so there's that I guess.

The banging was getting bad enough it was waking up the house in the middle of the night, and giving my 5 year old nightmares!

After going through old posts and watching some YouTube videos, I've skimmed the boiler twice using the top of the sight glass, about 3 gallons each timer for about an hour. The first time I think it was too cold, but the bucket had brownish yellow blobs that kind of look the fat when you open a can of chicken noodle...

Also replaced the main vents with Hoffman #75s, and raised the nipples to 2" to move away from the main. I wanted Gorton #2s as suggested, but I didn't have the clearance to screw them in.

Lo and behold, the water is stable, no more sounding like someone flushed a toilet into the main! Banging has stopped and the cold heaters are now getting hot.

I can tell I need to skim some more, but will wait a week to get more crud. Who knows, maybe I'll have a skim port by then.