Why do radiators seem so popular in the UK but not US?

cwilliams2000

As I have watched many shows on youtube showing flushing, etc mostly from the UK I noticed that nearly every home use radiators that are easily removable and none seemed to have baseboard heating. It seemed like a good idea but figured there might be a reason they aren't in the USA. Any ideas or thoughts on this?

hot_rod

Good question, most of Europe is heated with panel rads. Probably in the eye of the beholder, to me they are much more attractive and durable than fin tube baseboard, work great with TRVs and delta P circulators.

KC_Jones

I'll say it.
People in the US are notoriously cheap. The cheap trumps comfort or quality in most instances. Just what my experience has been.

DanHolohan

Much of Europe was rebuilt after WWII. Hydronics was a natural for that. At the same time, America was building tract housing and creating suburbs. President Eisenhower’s highways and his need to get people out of cities (the Cold War and the fear of nuclear attack). Suburban tract housing, for the most part, chose furnaces because of the cheaper price, compared to boilers. Prior to the war, half of the buildings in the U. S. had hydronic heat. No more.

cwilliams2000

Can you even purchase them here in the US? I really like the wall mount units. Not sure if you can mix them with baseboard.

Steamhead

Sure you can. Two that come to mind are Runtal and Buderus. They should mix fine with fin-tube baseboard as both are low mass, as long as they are both sized for the same supply water temp.

New England SteamWorks

KC_Jones said:

I'll say it.
People in the US are notoriously cheap. The cheap trumps comfort or quality in most instances. Just what my experience has been.

That's it. All about the labor cost. Running baseboard is far cheaper because the radiation is the piping.

You could flip it and say it was ingenious. Made more homes affordable for more people.

But I always liked the TRV radiators in Europe.

JUGHNE

A lot of older European buildings are solid masonry.
With panel or radiators you have a warm place to be, somewhat like a fireplace or stove. BB might feel like heat pump heating. IMO

MilanD

KC_Jones said:

I'll say it.
People in the US are notoriously cheap. The cheap trumps comfort or quality in most instances. Just what my experience has been.

Here's one interesting perspective on Germany vs. US. A lot has to do with standards that have developed over the years to fit the socio-economic conditions.

https://worldthruoureyes.com/2015/02/07/american-vs-german-homes-its-where-the-heart-is/

jumper

Adding heat to an old building is more doable with HHW than hot air?

DanHolohan

I think so.

JUGHNE

The shelf in the WC.....as I was told it catches your urine pass. You need a fair amount to flow to displace any water in the shelf basin.
Then you have litmus paper to check your PH. You know like we are supposed to test our boiler water.

The voltage difference; I lived on a Greek island for 39 months while in the USAF. One winter my 120v toaster died which I had always plugged into my transformer. So I eventually found the correct gauge and length of nichrome heating element wire to rewire it for 220v and not use the transformer. I tell the story to my kids and they say "why didn't you just go buy a new toaster"?
They don't understand that you had to order one and there might have been a waiting list......what do you mean "Wait"??

Old Europeans probably look at out stick/sheetrock houses as if they were cardboard compared to the old world.

Europe may have had steam systems at one time but it got demoed by the B17/Lancaster wrecking crew. Reconstructed by The Marshall Construction company which may have paved the way for HWH. IMO...in our best interests....forgotten history perhaps. .

DanHolohan

There’s district steam in some European cities, but it converts to hot water as it enters the buildings. An exception is Messe Frankfurt, where ISH is. They have steam radiation in some of those buildings. Steam began in England and immediately moved to the U. S., where it stayed. Europe, for the most part, never used steam widely. It was always hot water.

Steamhead

Frederic Tudor's system did well in Europe:

https://heatinghelp.com/heating-museum/european-heating-systems-circa-1907/

DanHolohan

Yes, and I stand corrected. Apologizes to all, especially Mr. Tudor!

jumper

DanHolohan said:

There’s district steam in some European cities, but it converts to hot water as it enters the buildings. An exception is Messe Frankfurt, where ISH is. They have steam radiation in some of those buildings. Steam began in England and immediately moved to the U. S., where it stayed. Europe, for the most part, never used steam widely. It was always hot water.

Weren't devices sold in Europe after WW II to convert one pipe radiators into two pipe? So that buildings previously heated with steam could use HHW?

DanHolohan

I don’t know, jumper.