Trying to figure out my 2 pipe vented system

jradley

Hey all - I've been lurking for a bit now trying to figure out the system I have in my old (1892) house. From what I can tell it's a 2 pipe vented system that hasn't had much love in a long time. I've been going through and repacking leaky valves. Nobody local seems to have vents so those are on order. I've gotten one so far (a Hoffman 1A), unfortunately it seems to pop in and out once the system gets up to temp.

I also have some banging when things get warm. I'm trying to track down the issue..part of which might have been dirt that had been piled on top of the pipes in the crawlspace. I've been digging at that, but any other thoughts on stopping it would be appreciated.

Since folks like pics, here are a few of the boiler. I can't see any model number on the outside...

nicholas bonham-carter

When you say "pop in and out", what do you mean?
There is a pipe connected to one of the risers-what is that connected to?
The supplies could use some insulation, and what is your pressure in ounces?
Is the water feed from the condensate tank throttled down?--NBC

Steamhead

How about some radiator pics? Include views of any valve or device at the radiator connections- this should help us ID your system.

Where are you located?

jradley

When I say pop in and out I meant that the vent closes and opens every 3 to 5 seconds. The old one spat constantly.

I've attached a pic of what I think you're asking about re the risers. Outside of the boiler room there's insulation on the pipes...but I think you're right.

The valve on the condensate feed is wide open.

I've attached a few pics of the upstairs radiators...the downstairs radiators appear to be handmade from cast iron pipes and fittings...don't seem to have issue with them.

And I'm in Montana.

EBEBRATT-Ed

It's 2 pipe vapor but it's had a lot of work since 1892. Welded pipe at the boiler and the boiler feed tank are not original also F & T trap has been added. The first thing is to run it at the lowest pressure possible and actually the air vents on the radiators were not originally installed. Your air vent now is at the boiler feed tank vent

Danny Scully

Hmmm, anyone thinking what I’m thinking? Might have been hot water once actually. The only reason I suggest this is because they are hot water type radiators and (1) actually has a coin air vent. They also don’t have hand valves in the return which was common with 2-pipe air vent systems...think this will required every picture you can possible take

Steamhead

I think it's some sort of Orifice Vapor system. These systems don't use radiator return valves either.

The hot-water-type vent on the ornate rad might have been an attempt to get the rad to heat up more quickly if there was someone there to open it. I've seen that before. Obviously whoever did that didn't know about main vents.

@jradley , on this type of system there should be a vent on the dry (overhead) return line. This is what is supposed to get rid of the air in the radiators. If the vent is not there, it's certainly possible that Beavis and Butt-head removed it. I've seen that too.

I've been to Montana. What part of the Big Sky State are you in?

jumper

Danny Scully said:

Hmmm, anyone thinking what I’m thinking? Might have been hot water once actually. The only reason I suggest this is because they are hot water type radiators and (1) actually has a coin air vent. They also don’t have hand valves in the return which was common with 2-pipe air vent systems...think this will required every picture you can possible take

Some people scoff but everything get's tried somewhere sometime. You'd think that changing HHW to steam means oversized rads & undersized pipes? But those oversized rads will condense all the steam so you don't need traps? And those undersized supply take care of too much rad area? All you need is a method to vent air well.

Doesn't that rad with HHW vent also have a one pipe vent as well?

jradley

Yes, this is not the original, though the original coal boiler still sits down there (picture attached). It was retrofitted for gas at some point and then taken out of commission.

What do you mean by F&T trap?

I'm not seeing any vent on the returns...so is the pipe coming out of the boiler feed tank is acting as the vent?

And I'm in Helena...though my family hails from your part of the country Steamhead...Southern MD!

jradley

Sorry, pic wasn't done uploading. Here's the old system, still in place.

Danny Scully

That’s awesome, please keep taking pictures!

EBEBRATT-Ed

Now THAST'S what 1892 looks like!!!!.

Looks like maybe a gage glass and try cocks on the right hand side

Fred

Don't ever let anyone rip that out! It is a jewel.

Steamhead

How about some first-floor radiator pics? I bet they're Nason, Bundy or similar...........

jradley

Here are the first floor radiators. The one in darker picture is about 14 or so feet long. They all have pigtails coming off the return pipe with vents on them.

Steamhead

Wow! I think that's the first time I've seen pipe coils recessed into walls. They really went as far as they could go for 1892.

AMservices

@jradley
Let me congratulate you for showing @Steamhead Something he thinks he hasn't seen before.
Bravo!
You should get a T-shirt or something

Steamhead

You never see it all. There's always something out there you haven't seen. Right, @Dan Holohan ?

JUGHNE

Looks like manual air vent in one picture. Not that rare, gives you room by room control though.

unclejohn

It's funny what some of think of as beauty. And that's a beauty.

jumper

Not the first time somebody installs rad vents when they should not

EBEBRATT-Ed

Those 90 degree fittings with the ribs are old. Like the pipe nipples between the rows for expansion rollars

Fred

Is that some type of bleed valve on that radiator in the second picture? I do suspect this might have been a hot water system that was converted at some time???