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low loss header....

MikeL_2
MikeL_2 Member Posts: 514
edited March 2023 in THE MAIN WALL
Has anyone made their own hydraulic separator- I'm thinking 2" pipe nipples & 4 tees by 1"; I need about 8 gpm on the primary side........

Comments

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,550
    You can do that. However, most manufactured ones offer additional features.

    Check out Caleffi's SEP4:

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyhouse.com/product_files/Caleffi-549596A0Product-Overview.pdf
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Dave H_2
    Dave H_2 Member Posts: 587
    And here is a basic copper one
    taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/100-76.pdf


    Dave Holdorf

    Technical Training Manager - East

    Taco Comfort Solutions

  • delta T
    delta T Member Posts: 884
    The sep 4 is an awesome piece of heating hardware. Saves a bunch of time, definitely worth the price especially on an older retrofit. Mag separation is your friend!
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,396
    You want a 3-1 ratio to make it work properly. 1" connections need a 3" barrel.

    Adding some stainless mesh inside will really enhance air and dirt removal.

    I have seen home made versions in stainless and AquaTherm PP pipe also.

    I also remember a stainless version built for corner installation with connections 90° to each other.

    A drain cock and also a port for temperature sensor up top are good features.


    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • MikeL_2
    MikeL_2 Member Posts: 514
    Hot rod,
    I'm not trying to be a wise guy ( I am trying to become wise), but doesn't 2" pipe have 4 times the capacity of 1 ", and, recently I saw a Spirovent LLH with a 3" body & 1 1/4" branch connections.......
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,396
    MikeL said:

    Hot rod,

    I'm not trying to be a wise guy ( I am trying to become wise), but doesn't 2" pipe have 4 times the capacity of 1 ", and, recently I saw a Spirovent LLH with a 3" body & 1 1/4" branch connections.......

    Caleffi has done a lot of flow testing and engineering on Hydrauilc separation. The ultimate goal would be to have zero pressure drop in the center portion, but that is virtually unachievable. Even a section of pipe 1 inch long has some pressure drop, depending on flow rate.
    It's more about flow velocity not capacity in the barrel for a properly designed sep.

    In the example I showed above a 2" hydro-sep with a 6" barrel has less that .50 fps flow velocity with a 40 gpm flow. Beyond that the cost to go to larger barrel size does not add enough additional value.

    That 3-1 ratio does change in the larger sized 10" and up for example, there is a long formula involved in the calculation.

    The Caleffi seps are engineered to do an excellent job of multiple functions, air, dirt, magnetic and hydraulic separation so we build with those goals, not just a P/S tee :)



    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • RxRoy
    RxRoy Member Posts: 22
    Thanks to help with parts from Hot Rod, I built this separator in December 2015. It worked great in its first season of use. I made it out of stainless because of the non-oxygen barrier tubing in my basement floor. The whole system is non-ferrous. Its 3" on the barrel, with 1"pipe outlets. It has plastic mesh inside to capture micro bubbles.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,396
    Nice "fitting"

    Here is another homemade stainless version.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    I wonder in a corner setup if mixing is identical? It should be, but at 90 degrees seems some short circuiting would occur.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,396
    Don't know. I have seen some brands that stagger the connections, seems like about the same turn inside?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited September 2017
    True. Then there is also chamber shape. Just seems the flow going around a 90 degree path would see a more tornadic swirl in the chamber. However we are now getting into 3 catagoreies of flow in a hydraulic seperator. Greater than,less than, and equal to. Equal undoubtedly would be no difference.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    That would be an interesting one to view with your clear acrylic pumping set up.
    Canucker
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    It would also be interesting to be able to inject food coloring into the primary, and secondary side of things. Red for boiler side, and blue for system side. Then have variable speed circs for each side with identical piping in each side for head loss. Then you could see how it mixes with the three different scenarios.
    Canuckerkcopp
  • debinski
    debinski Member Posts: 2
    Yes i have. It does not need to be complicated. You can make them out of a couple of big Tee's. Here is a four zone retrofit. I just cut out the old boiler and kept all the original zone pumps in place. Just put the header on the old supply and return, and ran the condensing boiler to it. I have the original air separator up high. Works great.

    Here are some before and after pics....









    Remember, An LLH cant be too big, but it can be too small. So do some basic math. Its not hard.

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