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question with steam supply piping

dobro23dobro23 Posts: 62Member
hey guys, gonna be replacing this on tuesday with a megasteam 513 and megasteam near boiler piping package. planning on fixing the piping problems at the dry and wet returns etc but my question is with the supply. wondering if it will be acceptable to remove the existing drop for the equalizer and feed the steam to the house there and then just cap the other end of the 3" header at the companion flange. I will be using the 2 riser, dropped header configuration and 1 2" supply from the megasteam to the eixting 3" header to the house. is this gonna be a problem? how would you do it?







Comments

  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Posts: 10,651Member
    Don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to see a drip to the wet returns at that companion flange, rather than just capping it. That way any water in the steam would drop out in that big 3 inch and be swooshed along to the companion flange end (be sure the drip connects at the bottom not the centre!) rather than having to go back to the main steam feed and get blown all over the place.
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,884Member
    I partially agree with Jamie, except that it's not that I'd like to see it, you have no option.

    That WILL hold water and it will need to be drained.

    It would be best to cut it out and install a new header in it's place.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • SteamheadSteamhead Posts: 13,117Member
    I'd run the two 2-inch risers into the existing 3-inch header, as they did with the old boiler, and retain the existing header drip/equalizer as long as it's big enough. You may need to change the height of the Hartford Loop connection but that's no big deal.

    The 2-inch header in the manual is a minimum specification. There is nothing wrong with using the existing 3-inch header- in fact, it will dry out the steam better. Save yourself a lot of trouble and use the 3-inch header and equalizer connection. That's what we'd do.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 5,778Member
    Would you also separate the 2 dry returns and reconnect them below the water line?
  • dobro23dobro23 Posts: 62Member
    Yes! There are a number of things that need to be reworked. Hartford loop, dry returns etc,
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,914Member
    The old header is fine. You can feed the steam from either end and drip the header from the opposite end.

    That flange is not a companion flange (it won't match a valve bolt pattern) but is a cast iron "flange union" they are sold as a set, you get both halves including the bolts and gasket all put together,
  • SteamheadSteamhead Posts: 13,117Member
    dobro23 said:

    Yes! There are a number of things that need to be reworked. Hartford loop, dry returns etc,

    Yes. Both those drips should extend downward and tie together about a foot above floor level.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 5,778Member
    Does the existing header slope down towards the equalizer on the left?
  • SteamheadSteamhead Posts: 13,117Member
    Hard to tell from the pic. But, you could feed it from either end with the right piping, so no need to re-pitch.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • Phil53Phil53 Posts: 66Member
    Just wondering, why are you replacing the existing boiler? Looks fairly new.
  • dobro23dobro23 Posts: 62Member
    existing boiler is leaking into the chamber from above. not sure what cracked it as the low water cut off seemed to be functioning properly. the header is pitched lower on the equalizer end. thanks for the correction on the flange union. i never knew that. going to the house tomorrow to demo the existing boiler and aquabooster and bring in the new equipment. moving the vents, repiping the dry returns and other miscellaneous piping on the other side of the basement. i was gonna tie in the dry returns AT the floor. is there a reason it should be done 1 foot above as steamhead stated? the "plan" so far is the reuse the existing header and use as much as the megsteam near boiler piping kit as possible. gonna try to rotate the flange union 90 degrees and feed the steam in from the top creating a dropped header. removing the bushing on the end and using a reducing 90 pointing up instead to pick up the other steam riser. as far as the existing equalizer goes, i dont like the reducing 90 on a 45. i may crack it off and rework. haven't decided. you guys ok with whats there?
  • dobro23dobro23 Posts: 62Member
    also it's 21 years old.
  • SteamheadSteamhead Posts: 13,117Member
    dobro23 said:

    is there a reason it should be done 1 foot above as steamhead stated?

    So you can put a drain there and have enough height to comfortably hook up a hose.
    dobro23 said:

    as far as the existing equalizer goes, i dont like the reducing 90 on a 45. i may crack it off and rework. haven't decided. you guys ok with whats there?

    It's fine. Even on a 45° angle it won't hold water.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • dobro23dobro23 Posts: 62Member
    so the job went pretty smoothly. lots of repiping returns and vents. some stuff in other rooms that is not pictured. hartford loop looks high in the pic but it's within the manufacturers spec. we werent able to use too much of the burnham near boiler piping kit so hope this is all correct in everyones eyes. we modified where we had to. at least its better than what was there!!! i do have a question about the baseboard circuit though. there are what appear to be taco 417 coin vents on the ends of each of the 3 baseboards. they all feed with normal radiator valves. at the end of this spur are 2 hoffman #75's which we calculated to be a little over . all the baseboard "returns" drop into a common pipe which is ABOVE the water line ( because it's in a higher crawlspace) but drops again a few feet away to the floor and becomes the only WET return in the system. it is 1" copper but inside looks like it was installed yesterday. problem is that the customer says the baseboards take forever to heat if at all. i suspect the radiator vents but not sure what else i can use to fit the location. the thermostat is in the living room and these are in the office which is far enough away. cycle rate is correct and no radiators to cause short cycling etc. the baseboards are on a take off all their own of the steam header. it's 1-1/2 pipe and roughly 50 feet from supply header to main vents

    b
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    s
    wit
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  • SteamheadSteamhead Posts: 13,117Member
    That's how we would have piped it. Nice work!
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • MilanDMilanD Posts: 1,107Member
    Nice job!

    Did I read this correctly, the 3 baseboards that don't heat are on their own long branch? If so, and these heat slowly, you can add one BJ big mouth just before the end of the run, on a tee in front of the baseboards, or similar contraption with made-o-mist d (whichever is the one with the biggest vent hole) in front of each baseboard, or even add 2nd vent on the baseboard itself, if there is tapping on the supply side of the baseboard. It will essentially turn each rad riser into a mini-main.

    I did this on with a big mouth, on a tee in front of a rad, on a 50ft long branch off 180 ft long main, and this is now the first place steam gets to. I don't have my EDR pipe/flow chart here, but 1-1/2" pipe should be rated between 70 and 120 edr depending on the flow (inline or counter), so per book it shoild probably be plenty of steam supply, as is there being 3 rads on one main before it turns into a wet return. You just need more venting there.

    As to the vents for baseboards, check out these convector vents (link below). It is the right one for this application. Air bleeder for water system does nothing there, although that vent does look like a steam vent. Try blowing in it and see if it's plugged up. It may need replacing anyway.

    http://www.supplyhouse.com/Hoffman-401475-508-1-8-Straight-Steam-Convector-Air-Valve-3521000-p

    Fwiw, you should be able to run this system well below 1 psi with good venting in place.

    Again, super nice boiler install!
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