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Navien - Would you?!?

NYplumber
NYplumber Member Posts: 503
Hi there,

As a professional heating guy, only offering the best to my clients I have not offered the Navien lineup as a boiler. In recent years I have worked on them and witnessed a very good warranty support they offered. What bothered me is that there is no way to clean the hx.

I did see quiet a few respectable in the industry (names withheld) that have installed the Navien NHB lineup.

I was curious if this is something I can offer as an entry level item.

The other two lineups I offer in the mod-cons are the NTI and Viessmann products. Both great products with good support and both well made. Those are for two different clients.

Would you install this for a client? Would you not?
And why?


Discuss
Thanks
:NYplumber:

Comments

  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,899
    No. Too many parts and a less than great HX.
    .....
    I have been using the IBC HC/ DC.
    This is marketed in Europe as Intergas.
    (It has the same HX as the TT Challenger)
    I like the HX and the unit only has 4 moving parts.

    The DC is the combi... the only combi that condenses while making DHW.

    12 bolts and the whole cover pops off and you can do a brush down.
    I like the simplicity yet you are still in the mid 90's for efficiency.

    I have about 20 out there and customers are quite happy.
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    NYplumber said:

    Hi there,

    As a professional heating guy, only offering the best to my clients I have not offered the Navien lineup as a boiler. In recent years I have worked on them and witnessed a very good warranty support they offered. What bothered me is that there is no way to clean the hx.

    I did see quiet a few respectable in the industry (names withheld) that have installed the Navien NHB lineup.

    I was curious if this is something I can offer as an entry level item.

    The other two lineups I offer in the mod-cons are the NTI and Viessmann products. Both great products with good support and both well made. Those are for two different clients.

    Would you install this for a client? Would you not?
    And why?


    Discuss
    Thanks

    Honest answer when I was in business, I often saw less than professional type installs with mentioned product,and I do believe it was due to there pricing at the supply houses...A lot of them were done by moonlighters trying to make a few extra beer and scratch ticket monies....And a lot were purchased by the H/O so he could save a few bucks, well that's what he thought...Never really got called to one that was correctly sized or installed, so my answer is give it a rip if you want....Just make damm sure you register the product and size and install it by the book...No manufacture should have to warrant any boiler sized and installed incorrectly...or take a public beating over it....JMO
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    I've found many situations where the Nav NHB, or more often, the NCB combi was the right fit, application, and price point. They've been working well- I had 2 with bad water pressure sensors but I'm going to blame myself for not flushing the system on those jobs. Both were warrantees and a decent labor allowance was given. Can't knock that.
    j a_2
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,633
    They're the largest boiler manufacturer in the world.
    Retired and loving it.
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    Never would have guessed that...I do know there are tons of them installed in the greater Boston area....I was in Korea in 1971 and at that time Ondal was used as a floor heat....lots of G I got sick and several died from it ,they warned us all the time....Amazing now the have high tech boilers
  • NYplumber
    NYplumber Member Posts: 503
    Thanks for the replies!

    Interestingly enough I will mention to look at the new 100 series from Viessmann. I was surprised at the cost (cant say more due to sight rules). Makes one want to go with the European brand.....
    :NYplumber:
  • mikeg2015
    mikeg2015 Member Posts: 1,184
    I had one of their tankless water heater installed in my house with a recalculation loop. No issues in 5 years. Pretty easy install. Put on in at a commercial kitchen as a booster heater at the end of a large building loop that was only at 120F. Only issue was that return water had to be less than 90F or it faulted out on I assume high flue temp. Ran fine after a mixing valve was installed.

    But I think in the end, you are better off with a Lochinvar or maybe just stick with a good WM or Burnham with indirect tank and realize that when you factor in the 4-5% lower efficiency but consider the cost savings and lifespan of the equipment, in the end, you are money ahead. Mod-cons make more sense in new construction or where you have limited space or have venting issues. Another might be wide swings in demand.

    Remember a good cast iron boiler can hit 85-87% efficiency with minimal electrical consumption when installed right. A mod con installed wrong or in the wrong situation might only get 88-92% efficiency and require more electricity for the inducer as well. You need return water temps under 110F to get much out of a mod-con to justify it's short lifespan.
    j a_2Bob Bona_4
  • bob eck
    bob eck Member Posts: 928
    Take a look at the Lochinvar Noble combi boiler. Fire tube SS heat exchanger, 10 to 1 turn down, brazed plate heat exchanger for domestic hot water, outdoor reset control, control runs primary pump in the boiler plus one external pump, control also lets you know in plain English no special code numbers to look up. 95% AFUE wall hung three input rates
    Boiler has priority for domestic hot water.
    110,000 BTU input delivers 2.6 GPM domestic hot water
    150,000 BTU input delivers 3.6 GPM domestic hot water
    199,000 BTU input delivers 4.8 GPM domestic hot water
    If installing the higher BTU input models for higher domestic hot water you can down fire the heating side of this boiler to match the house actual BTU load and the boiler will still fire up to high fire for the domestic hot water output.
    Check it out. Where are you located at. F W Webb stocks and sells this boiler.
    There is nothing wrong with the Navien combi boiler or their heating boiler only.
    j a_2
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    Yup, ford, chevy, mopar, pretty much all the same...Jmo
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,514
    If what I'm learning is true a CI boiler efficiencies are quite less than the rating. Calc IBR efficiency once. IF ci efficiencies are in the high 60's low 70's then a mod/con beats ci boilers at high return temps.
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    What's the first word in "mod-con"?
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,217
    Mod-Cons do beat cast iron even at high return temps. I've seen it as have many others.