Buderus head scracher

jsantos7665

hi

I have a buderus g125/be oil boiler. during winter operation, I have no problems with boiler during winter months. But during summer, i use boiler for domestic hot water only. this problem only occurs during summer months. if the boiler goes a long period of time without firing and then has a call, it does not fire and I get a display on logamatic 2107 that states "BURNER ERR". If i push reset button, burner fires and all is fine until it happens again at a later date. It almost seems like it looses its prime but last time tech was here he said prime was fine. direct vent outside in case anyone is wondering.

STEVEusaPA

--For starters--
-It's losing its prime.
-Vacuum leak.
-Pump is bad.
-Bad/weak ignitor.
-Motor problem.
All of these can be checked with proper skills and tools.
Also, no need to post twice.

HVACNUT

Sounds like improper combustion. Is the correct HAGO nozzle installed? There is only ONE nozzle spec'd for your BE burner (each boiler, 3,4 or 5 section takes a specific nozzle to match size). Did the tech use a combustion analyzer for proper adjustment? The only way is to use the chart in the manual and cross the CO2 with the combustion air temp. to the burner, by putting a thermometer in the port of the combustion air pipe at the back of the boiler (dont tell me your using room air) and adjusting pump pressure until the lines intersect.
You also need to achieve a specific over fire static pressure.

jsantos7665

HVACNUT said:

Sounds like improper combustion. Is the correct HAGO nozzle installed? There is only ONE nozzle spec'd for your BE burner (each boiler, 3,4 or 5 section takes a specific nozzle to match size). Did the tech use a combustion analyzer for proper adjustment? The only way is to use the chart in the manual and cross the CO2 with the combustion air temp. to the burner, by putting a thermometer in the port of the combustion air pipe at the back of the boiler (dont tell me your using room air) and adjusting pump pressure until the lines intersect.

You also need to achieve a specific over fire static pressure.

yes the tech did all of the above and i don't think any of these would be the cause because if they were, I would see the problem occur also during a call in the winter and not just the summer.

jsantos7665

STEVEusaPA said:

--For starters--
-It's losing its prime.
-Vacuum leak.
-Pump is bad.
-Bad/weak ignitor.
-Motor problem.
All of these can be checked with proper skills and tools.
Also, no need to post twice.

vacuum leak or losing prime I do agree with but a weak ignitor or the motor being bad I believe would occur not only in the summer but also in the winter.

I thought the tech pulled a vacuum when he was here but if a pump seal went bad, would that show up in a vacuum test. forgive my ignorance but I'm just so frustrated with this and would like to have an honest conversation with the tech with some knowledge from you guys to maybe brainstorm with him because I don't have anyone up here where I live Certified to work on this boiler . The installer of this boiler is no longer in business so I am stuck.

jsantos7665

jsantos7665 said:

HVACNUT said:

Sounds like improper combustion. Is the correct HAGO nozzle installed? There is only ONE nozzle spec'd for your BE burner (each boiler, 3,4 or 5 section takes a specific nozzle to match size). Did the tech use a combustion analyzer for proper adjustment? The only way is to use the chart in the manual and cross the CO2 with the combustion air temp. to the burner, by putting a thermometer in the port of the combustion air pipe at the back of the boiler (dont tell me your using room air) and adjusting pump pressure until the lines intersect.

You also need to achieve a specific over fire static pressure.

yes the tech did all of the above and i don't think any of these would be the cause because if they were, I would see the problem occur also during a call in the winter and not just the summer.

Can you think of a component that would cause consistently good combustion in the winter during frequent system calls and then as demand fell in the summer begin to fail. This is the delimma.

jsantos7665

jsantos7665 said:

jsantos7665 said:

HVACNUT said:

Sounds like improper combustion. Is the correct HAGO nozzle installed? There is only ONE nozzle spec'd for your BE burner (each boiler, 3,4 or 5 section takes a specific nozzle to match size). Did the tech use a combustion analyzer for proper adjustment? The only way is to use the chart in the manual and cross the CO2 with the combustion air temp. to the burner, by putting a thermometer in the port of the combustion air pipe at the back of the boiler (dont tell me your using room air) and adjusting pump pressure until the lines intersect.

You also need to achieve a specific over fire static pressure.

yes the tech did all of the above and i don't think any of these would be the cause because if they were, I would see the problem occur also during a call in the winter and not just the summer.

Can you think of a component that would cause consistently good combustion in the winter during frequent system calls and then as demand fell in the summer begin to fail. This is the delimma.

HVACNUT

The primary control should have flashed a code on lockout. Do you have the installer/service manual to retrieve the code?
Vacuum shouldn't, but maybe, be a cause. On the next cycle, check the vacuum gauge at the Tiger Loop Ultra.
If the tech is not certified on the BE, he's just kind of winging it. Place a call to Buderus. They might be able to send a regional rep. Coordinate with your service tech. to meet at your home. The rep. won't be bringing tools.
Also, which boiler do you have?

jsantos7665

G125/be is the boiler. I'm so frustrated with this crap. I contacted Buderus last year and they gave me a Techs number but when he came out he didn't seem to have a clue what he was doing but yet his company was certified. I think the guy that actually got certified with the company is not longer with the company but they are still listed as a company with a certified tech.

STEVEusaPA

Could be a draft issue.

Grallert

Sure sounds like it's firing into a cool moist chamber. The indirect should be keeping it warm and dry though.

HVACNUT

> @jsantos7665 said:
> G125/be is the boiler.

>> I know it's a BE, 3,4 or 5 section?
Was there a diagnostic code on the Emerson primary? What's the running vacuum?

HVACNUT

I should've double checked. Nozzle should be a Danfoss, and your primary is by Siemens.
Here is the manual and quick trouble shooting guide.

jsantos7665

thanks for all the info. I will check next time it fails if i can identify code.

jsantos7665

I just had to do a reset on the system. System had a fast red flicker with "burner err" and after one quick push of the button the reading was a solid red. I reset the system and the tiger loop reading was in the green at 5.

Robert O'Brien

Buried oil tank?

HVACNUT

Check/clean the flame sensor. Shut off power first.
If it locks out again (steady red light or flickering red light), activate interface diagnostics.
Press reset button for 5 seconds until the LED briefly flashes yellow.
Check the flash code and find type of fault on the trouble shooting guide.
Press reset button for 1 second to stop the diagnosis and unlock the burner.
These burners run extremely clean. If the flame sensor is dirty, there is a serious combustion problem. Again, I highly recommend you contact Buderus to have a regional rep. come out, along with an experienced service technician who has a combustion analyzer and a true RMS meter capable of reading micro amps.

STEVEusaPA

Robert O'Brien said:

Buried oil tank?

5" of vacuum and a TigerLoop...I saw that too. Let's see who gives up first...@HVACNUT or @jsantos7665.

HVACNUT

> @STEVEusaPA said:
> Buried oil tank?
>
> 5" of vacuum and a TigerLoop...I saw that too. Let's see who gives up first...@HVACNUT or @jsantos7665.

>>the Tiger Loop Ultra is supplied and required with the Buderus burner. 5" vac shouldn't be a big deal. You had to be certified by Buderus to purchase and service this boiler, and I don't think he's gotten a certified tech.

jsantos7665

I tried to get a cert tech to repair this system but have been unable to locate one. The tech that installed my system about 9 years ago was certified and serviced it since was certified!

jsantos7665

ok so i got 2 red flashes. I checked flame sensor and it was clean. I reinserted it and it hasn't failed yet since July 2nd. We'll see what happens. Ultimately I know i need to get a certified tech because I don't have a combustion analyzer or a meter to check microamps.

johnfaccio

The boiler has got to be properly set up with combustion analyzer to spec or you will get change of season lock outs is what I see with the few I installed. I remember talking about it in certification class. Outdoor temperature has to be considered or you get season change shut downs. You set that boiler up to spec and you have no trouble with it. I installed a few when they first came out and that was a lot of time ago and not one service call from any of them. Service every year with manufacturers supplied parts and zero problems is what I find.

jsantos7665

Every time the tech was here to do a service, he always set it up with combustion analyser. this has gone on for a few years. boiler may run a week or 2 with no problems and then 2 reds. I'm thinking maybe solenoid valve sticking. what do you think

HVACNUT

2 reds is no flame during trial for ignition. Replace the spin on oil filter and see if that helps. See if vacuum drops from 5" while running.
Hand tight only, don't go gorilla on it.

jsantos7665

Hello everyone and thank you to everyone that offered sincere help. I would like to let everyone know that 3 weeks ago, I found the problem. I continued to monitor the g125 closely on startup. I was inspecting primary and noticed a very small brown burn mark on one of the high voltage wires that was touching the blower motor. from my days eons ago when I used to repair crt televisions, I remembered that the flyback transformer wire would arc through the rubber shielding. I moved this high voltage attached to primary away from blower motor case. The unit has not failed since. My wife is now off my case because she doesn't have to reset every morning before taking a shower.

Thank you again to those that sincerely offered assistance.

Jack

P.S I wont name any names but there is always one individual that is a wise ****. If you don't have something decent to say then just shut up and keep your comments to yourself.

Thank You HVACNUT for all of your help! You are a truly a good man.

HVACNUT

> @jsantos7665 said:
>
> Thank You HVACNUT for all of your help! You are a truly a good man.

Glad everything worked out. I'm gonna print this and hang it on the frig. for all to see. Now I'll get the respect I deserve. Right Honey?

jsantos7665

Correction it was not primary, it was the transformer igniter. Me not being a burner tech, I called it by the wrong name.

GW

J Thanks I added that note to my G125 tech notes. We have a few out there, we have one in our shop too (it’s how we get rid of the oil we pull from tanks). We got our clocks cleaned on one G125 a couple years ago. Some other Buderus guy went in there and did some simple fix, or so the homeowner told me. We called New Hampshire a few times, got nowhere.

Thanks

GW

John, you said, “ You set that boiler up to spec and you have no trouble with it.” Good luck when you finally get a tricky one. Not fun

jsantos7665

John, make a note that it wasn't actually the trans-igniter but rather the high voltage wires going from the transformer.

jsantos7665

I never got to post this picture but you can see the brown burn mark where the voltage was arcing through the wire to the pump case. I never saw it because the wire looked clean but it was on the back side. Took me a long time to figure out this intermittent problem. 

ratio

Arcing is hard to find if you don't see it sparking. I had an issue where 480 volts was flashing over between two terminals in a molex plug & blowing fuses. Took me a looong time to find it, because when I megged out the conductors they showed clear. I'm still not sure why it was doing that, but the (eventual) burn marks gave it away.

Never did hear back from the factory about it, either. One wonders if the plugs actually carry a 600 volt rating…

BDR529

I've got a BE myself. The black goo from the pic looks like you got heavy bio-blend fuel. BE's do not like bio blends, the burners get really cranky as you know.

Pump pressures above 140PSI Bio fuels tend to lose reliability.
BE burners run closer to 300PSI. With Bio-blends, strange things happen.

Electrodes have to replaced every 5 years they rust out.
Very reliable burners.

#1 Whats in the tank. Stratification?
#2 Electrodes
-#3 Danfoss HFD Nozzel
#4 Rope fire ring

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