Is furnacecompare.com a reliable source for information for gas boilers?

AG1973

Hello,

I am a homeowner who is currently on oil for hydro heating of a single family home. Gas is coming to our street, and I am in the process of getting quotes for gas boiler installations. I am looking for a 95% efficiency boiler in order to qualify for rebates in Massachusetts. I've had several contractors come to review my setup, and all are loyal to a particular boiler, but many get very mixed reviews on furnacecompare.com. (Examples are Burnham Alpine, Vitodens 100 (non-combi). My question: is that website a reliable source of information for someone like me who has very little knowledge of this area? Or should I trust the word of the individual contractors who are backing a particular boiler?

thank you in advance!

Tim Potter

Homeowner here, you appear to be at ground zero for expert boiler installations. It's far more important to find the qualified installer than the "BEST" boiler. This site is peppered with homeowner stories of those who hired the wrong installer and are trying to get their BEST equipment working correctly. Publish your zipcode, see who is close to you then read their posts, you will find your installer. obtw, furnacecompare appears to be click bait, within 12 seconds, there was a popup for quotes... just sayin

Good luck to you,

Tim

STEVEusaPA

Yelp for HVAC. Just like yelp, you have to take it with a grain (or 2 of salt). Anonymous people, giving anonymous reviews, isn't really credible research to me. It appears to mainly be a lead generator-contractors sign up, leads from the site are sent to them (for a fee).

The most important thing is the installer. Find a recommended, competent installer, who has installed a number of those brands. Their experience can help guide you to the right equipment/install.

Unless you see online a gov't or manufacturer recall, I wouldn't 'yelp' for equipment.

Every product can be rated great or horrible. A lot of it goes back to the installer. Someone may complain and give a low rating to a product because "...it never worked right, and the factory is no help..." where the reality is it's over sized, installed incorrectly, and no amount of 'adjusting' is every going to make it work right.

Now with all that said, one of the best sources is right here! Top pros, many in your area.

If you search the site you will see that not only have the 'Wallies' provided online help, but many have received work. The original poster and the 'Wallie' come back on, post pictures of problems solved.

So, especially with high efficiency equipment you want:
-Complete heat loss
-Competent/recommended installer

Also you should describe your situation more. It helps in recommending the type of equipment and design.

Zman

It looks like a great site for folks that want to vent about boiler issues and bash manufactures and blame them for the poor choice in a contractor the home owner made. I did not see a single review that gave enough detail to tell who was at fault for the disappointment.

Some boilers are better than others. The majority of issues we see on this site are caused by oversized boilers and installation errors.

Check out the "find a contractor" section on this site. Be willing to pay a fair price for a quality job.

AG1973

thank you everyone! I am deeply grateful for the thoughtful and insightful expertise that you have shared with me. I cannot fully express my gratitude for your help.

To explain more: My house is rather large, at around 6,000 square feet. However, about 2000 of this is basement, where the temperature is 65 degrees year round without heat or A/C. So 4000 square feet of living space that needs heating. New construction 5 years ago, and I have been told that the house is very well insulated. We currently have a Buderus Logano G115 oil furnace with a Carlin burner, using hydro air with an indirect water tank for heating and domestic water. Furnace is rated at 109mBTU/hr. I have been told that this sounds small for a house of our size, but we have never once had a problem with running out of hot water or inadequate heating for a family of 4, often with 1-2 visitors. The original installer did do a heat loss calculation when the house was built and decided on this setup, which has been adequate. For this reason, the same installer is recommending a similar or slightly larger gas boiler since it has worked.

I live in Newton, MA. Any further recommendations on equipment, etc., would be most appreciated. Thanks again everyone!

ChrisJ

Charles Garrity is who you want.
He's one of the best in the business and I believe in your area.

STEVEusaPA

If the original installer did a heat loss, and the system performed well, why the bigger boiler?
What were the original heat loss numbers?
I would only go slightly bigger IF the numbers call for it or if the boiler size of the boiler being considered is below the heat loss number.
Seems odd you're willing to scrap a 5 year old boiler just for some rebates. Did anyone run the numbers to prove much savings over 5 years? 10 years?
A newer modcon gas boiler will still require annual maintenance. Oil vs. Nat Gas still seem pretty comparable, with oil being cheaper in my area (Philly suburbs).

ChrisJ

Easy question.

Did that boiler ever run non-stop to maintain temperature, or perhaps even fall behind, and not keep up during the past 5 years?

If not, it's likely already technically oversized. DON'T GO BIGGER.

Charlie from wmass

If you have questions call me. I work in Newton often. Working just north of you today as a matter of fact.

AG1973

Thanks everyone --

Steve, you're so right -- the math may not work out in the near term to convert to gas, and I was torn for a long time re: the conversion. However, many people (not installers, just regular homeowners) that I've spoken to have a bias against oil, which now may be more historical than anything else. When we were buying (granted it was 5 years ago when oil was expensive), we didn't even consider a house with oil. I am betting that many have the same bias, and I am thinking of avoiding issues with future resale. And if we save some $ along the way, or break even, that would be great. Steve and Chris, you raise good points regarding boiler size. Seems like a same-size boiler would be adequate. I don't have those heat loss numbers however. Thank you everyone so much for the advice!!

Tim Potter

Sounds like your original installer was good, did a proper heatloss & sized the boiler correctly (10 points!) maybe take some clear shots of the overall install, & post here. there will be plenty of input on his abilities.

Tim

Zman

I post this one all the time but here it is again. Energy prices vary greatly by region. Fuels like propane and oil tend to be subject to more volatility that Nat gas and Electricity. Plug your local rates and guesses about future prices and make an informed decision.

AG1973

Thanks Zman. Using your calculator and our local fuel rates, the savings comes to about 35% per year. Thanks again!

j a_2

STEVEusaPA said:

Yelp for HVAC. Just like yelp, you have to take it with a grain (or 2 of salt). Anonymous people, giving anonymous reviews, isn't really credible research to me. It appears to mainly be a lead generator-contractors sign up, leads from the site are sent to them (for a fee).

The most important thing is the installer. Find a recommended, competent installer, who has installed a number of those brands. Their experience can help guide you to the right equipment/install.

Unless you see online a gov't or manufacturer recall, I wouldn't 'yelp' for equipment.

Every product can be rated great or horrible. A lot of it goes back to the installer. Someone may complain and give a low rating to a product because "...it never worked right, and the factory is no help..." where the reality is it's over sized, installed incorrectly, and no amount of 'adjusting' is every going to make it work right.

Now with all that said, one of the best sources is right here! Top pros, many in your area.

If you search the site you will see that not only have the 'Wallies' provided online help, but many have received work. The original poster and the 'Wallie' come back on, post pictures of problems solved.

So, especially with high efficiency equipment you want:
-Complete heat loss
-Competent/recommended installer

Also you should describe your situation more. It helps in recommending the type of equipment and design.

That's a great post with a lot of good advice...could not agree more about the manufactures taking a hit, when the issue has nothing to do with them

Steamhead

Not sure if this will come in cheaper than a 90%+ boiler and the rebate, but these Buderus boilers are built like tanks and will run very well on gas with the proper burner. I like the Carlin EZ-Gas burner on these, the other option is the Riello.

Charlie from wmass

@Steamhead while that is a great boiler with the current rebates it would not be cost competitive. I will be recommending a fire tube style stainless steel boiler with 10:1 turn down. Most likely, I have to see the job first.

Charlie from wmass

I looked at the website it at least does say and installation errors are the biggest problem and going with the low bidder is an issue. I must say their choices in boilers are not anything that I find regionally accurate.

j a_2

Charlie from wmass said:

I looked at the website it at least does say and installation errors are the biggest problem and going with the low bidder is an issue. I must say their choices in boilers are not anything that I find regionally accurate.

I agree installation errors are number one issue....Charlie I don't see how it's a fixable problem...Home owners want it cheap,and there are plenty of moonlightes out here to satisfy there wants....With out permit costs, insurance cost, license costs,and working out of a beach wagon after hours it's easy to low ball...They just go to the local supplier,ask for the cheap Korean import and then ask the counter guy for installation tips...

Charlie from wmass

The problem with installation errors is not home owners wanting cheap job its contractors not valuing the quality of their trade and talking themselves into bidding cheap jobs. I feel like Smokey the Bear and only you can prevent forest fires. Contractors only you can prevent cheap installations.

j a_2

How do they say it "I would rather be an idle fool than a busy fool"

AG1973

thanks again everyone. Here are some pics of my setup, as a previous poster requested. Hope this helps to shed light on my current setup. I might add that I have been very happy with the installation and operation of this system, and I can only say good things about my installer.

j a_2

Oh boy.

Charlie from wmass

@AG1973 that is not what would be called a good installation. Perhaps it works, but it could be much more professionally done

NY_Rob

Hasn't this install shown up here before?

I seem to recall the photo of the pipes crossing the basement window?

j a_2

@ny rob, you may be correct on that....but that is a job I would have done an about face on....terrible workmanship, would do nothing short of ripping it out.....

Steamhead

What a mess. Break out the Sawzall!

If you do replace the boiler, you might consider donating it to Habitat for Humanity or a similar group, such as Second Chance in Baltimore. I'm sure it has a lot of life left in it.

AG1973

I'm sad to see the opinions of my setup. However, can someone help me understand what about the installation is not so good? Is my setup a safety hazard, or would it negatively impact efficiency? Or is it just ugly, which I can deal with. I mainly need to know if there's a significant benefit to going through the hassle and cost of redoing the whole setup.

(Not sure if this influenced the original design, but the boiler, power vent and main piping are on the left side of the mechanical room; water tank and air handler are on the right, and the oil tank is by the back wall if you keep walking forward).

j a_2

Honesty, if it looks like a mess, and it does look like a mess...i would question the entire installation...Sorry but you asked..

Charlie from wmass

A new high efficiency boiler with proper installation and several pipe hangers and we could really improve the setup.

NY_Rob

Looks like there's a leak where the straight section meets the elbow in the venting...

j a_2

NY_Rob said:

Looks like there's a leak where the straight section meets the elbow in the venting...

Ya think there might be some blockage going on, I do.

Charlie from wmass

Miss adjusted power Venter

kcopp

Back to the original question... No. Its not. A lot of disgruntled people w/ units that may or may not be properly installed. Sounds like a good amount of misapplications and folks who do not have a clue as to how the particular units works.

AG1973

thanks everyone. I would love to hear additional feedback regarding my setup as per the pics posted above. Specifically what is worth changing/replacing in the process of a gas boiler replacement, and what if any existing parts/piping can be reused. Thank you all---

j a_2

The best thing you can do is get someone to evaluate the entire system....

NY_Rob

OP- why not use the "Find a Contractor" feature on the main page and have one of the pro's here come and take a look at your system? For a small charge at least you'll get an idea on what has to be done by someone who's qualified...


PS- that vent pipe elbow is scary... you're probably getting CO leakage into your basement.